Hi Gilbert Firstly, to put it mildly, I note some 'amnesia' in your response to me. You fail to tackle my point to you, and instead, you present an alternative issue/question. I am sorry but I really would like a reply to the point I raised with you re your statement about liberalism as a religion and my request for evidence about unnamed, but pointedly identifiable persons drawing unspecified claims from the Middle Ages.
At this point, let me also alert you that as a liberal politically, had I lived in the USA, it would be on the upper Eastern seaboard or in California and I would be voting Democrat rather than Republican like a steady 50% of the American population. Also, I have been a member of the UK Labour Party (a pretty broad church which includes a niche for social democrats like me), for 40 years and only tore up my party membership card over Blair's insane support for Bush in the war on Iraq. Does this make me some kind of odd character because, presumably, I would not vote Republican or perhaps even Christian Right were I in America? Do start thinking more clearly Gilbert, on issues like this, before presenting something rather lightweight on Goanet from time to time! Secondly, the phrase "Catholic Churches built over temples, as an arrogant displacement of Hindu shrines" did not originate from me. I drew from material, from memory, from my earlier reading of a point of view. Have you honestly never come across material like this in all your supposed wide reading in this area? Or am I supposed to anticipate your acute sensitivity to such a statement and avoid it in a discussion? Is this the kind of sanitised discussion you want? If so, why not tell us in advance so that, we do not unnecessarily upset your very delicate super-ego in debate and discussion? And by way of an answer to your question, "Is this history, religion, neither or both? Please believe me that it is simply informed commentary. You may interpret it in any manner you wish, as such is the nature of discourse. If you see such a comment as being anti-Catholic, that is up to you but it was definitely not intended by me. As a corollary, I take it that, you would have found my irritation at the tourist guide's attack on a Goan in the "sacred space" where the body of St Francis Xavier is located, as being intensely pro-Catholic. Would you? Do let me know about such a possible dichotomy! I am afraid you really seem to have a problem internalising and professing your religion/faith. I quickly read your pretty laboured response to Kevin with some interest but have yet to read properly what you said to Jose, for lack of time. In the case of your 'attack' on Kevin, I was truly embarrassed. You presented yourself as being pretty bigoted I am afraid. If you expect someone to respect your religious belief, why on earth can you not respect a self-proclaimed atheist's sincere philosophy of life and existence? Is it a case that you think your self-professed cafeteria-Catholicism is rather special compared to other people's faiths/beliefs? I am not aware that anyone on Goanet has really attacked Catholicism as you imagine. In contrast, however, you seem to have gone on and on dismissively arguing with little firm evidence that, only exceptionally might temples have been destroyed and Catholic Churches built on them in Goa. Also, your position on the Inquisition in Goa is highly questionable to me and others but I was definitely not dismissive of your position on these issues. I even politely suggested that you may indeed be right but that the issue should be left to professional historians to resolve rather than perhaps an amateur 'historian' like your good self. I think such a view was also expressed by George Pinto, among others, but with a hilarious touch to it. So, to reiterate, I found your response to Kevin pretty uninformed and intolerant (for a professed Christian). Firstly, you were attacking the person rather than the ideas. Secondly, there was some absurd psychological theorising about Kevin's state of mind in making his 'route de passage' from Catholic to atheist. You seem to want to be many things Gilbert, a medical doctor, historian, psychologist, sociologist, philosopher, novelist, psychiatrist and even theologian. In the process, all I read from you was a pretty weak attempt at some kind of analysis that simply wasn't there or could be taken seriously. Gilbert, I can't speak for Elizabeth, but just because I may not enter a debate, (especially, if I don't think it is worth it), it is most absurd of you to say "Your's and Elizabeth's writing skills just melted away." Hopefully, this post should disprove such a view for you. Please also note that, I have never been seriously challenged by your rhetoric on Goanet and I doubt this is likely to happen now. Regarding your contention that Kevin has attacked the Church, please do let me have some credible examples (emanating specifically from Kevin) which might support your contention. I promise to respond to you, on this, as objectively as possible. Further, I more than once said that the Catholic Church has comfortably co-existed with the evil of caste in Goa from earliest times to the present. As per your learned judgement, is this an illustration of something anti-Catholic? And is my factual contention anti-Catholic that, from within the portrayal of externally devout Catholics, we have some of the greatest crooks on earth constituting the Mafia, Cosa Nostra etc. Let's, for now, only note the other "rock solid Christians" like Hitler, the putative priest, Stalin, and innumerable South American Christian/Catholic socialised persons, and latter day dictators like Castro, Samoza, Peron, Pinochet, Oscar R Benavides, Luis M Sanches Cerro, and Juan Velasco Alvarado among so many others with a torture and murder record that runs into millions. Well, you prompted all these questions from me and I can only wait for your well thought out responses please. Regards Cornel ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gilbert Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <goanet@lists.goanet.org> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Rock solid moral code > Hi Cornel > > How about many "Stupa Hindu Temples" within church walls in Goa? > And to jog your memory, how about YOUR statement? > "Catholic Churches built over temples, as an arrogant displacement of > Hindu shrines." > Is this history, religion, neither or both? > Or is this your Anti-Catholic left hook? (boxing analogy) > > How come you never objected to Kevin's attacks on the Church? > Your's and Elisabeth's writing skills just melted away? > > Did you like my response to Kevin and Dotor Jose-saab? > Kind Regards, GL > > ------------- Cornel wrote: > > In effect, ........ please provide (negative) references to the Catholic > Church in the Middle-Ages by Goan Christaums. > _______________________________________________ > Goanet mailing list > Goanet@lists.goanet.org > http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org > _______________________________________________ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
