Selma changed the Subject of this thread to "Re: Divorce in Goa and India" when it was actually "Initiating, Participating and Soapboxing".
At no previous time was 'India' mentioned in Selma's original bombastic statements. The devious attempt to insert a "Re" and change the Subject Line has been noted. How a "Re." Could suddenly appear when there was no such Subject quoted earlier is very interesting. Was it a deliberate attempt to include India in the debate? Coming back to the matter at hand. The statements by Selma that I found contentious, I repeat, are: "The divorce rate in Goa is spiraling. Extra-marital and pre-marital sex is as frequent and prevalent as anywhere in the West." In support of her statements Selma earlier said: "However, just for fun I did google divorce, pre-marital and extra-marital sex in India and Goa. There were so many links that popped up, I couldn't decided which one to post so I suggest you google for yourself." When challenged on the existence of these 'many' links of which she speaks here are the 'many' links Selma quotes in defense of her ridiculous statements. 1) http://www.hinduonnet.com/folio/fo9909/99090360.htm This is an article by Sabita Radakrishna titled "Marriage in a Crisis" that appeared on the Sunday Magazine (Sept 12) of The Hindu in 1999, which is seven years back. It talks about the institution of marriage in India and there is no reference to Goa or Goans. 2) http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/mp/2002/09/23/stories/2002092300290200.htm This is an article by Thara Mohan Rao in The Hindu dated 23rd September 2002 titled "Why is the divorce rate climbing up?". Again this is about India in general and there is absolutely no reference to Goa. 3) http://in.rediff.com/getahead/2005/mar/23youth.htm An ANI (March 23 2005) report about "Premarital sex high among youth today". Again absolutely no mention of Goa. I don't see any spiralling other that Selma going around in circles. So far Selma has failed to show us the 'many' links that popped up when she used Google to prove her statement about divorce and extra-marital sex in Goa. ---------- Let's go to her other arguments: Selma says: "In addition to this the ecclesiastical authorities in Goa frequently put out literature on the spiraling rate of divorce." Cecil: I would like to see names and dates and publications. I don't read many ecclesiastical publications but the few I do chance upon have never mentioned any spiralling rates. -------- Selma writes: "Infact, in Goa a very curious fact occurs with Catholics. Goans seek an "annulment" from the Bishop, which enables them to remarry in Church. So, divorce statistics are suppressed among Catholics and in actual fact are higher than stated." Cecil: To the best of my knowledge 'divorce statistics' would mean 'legal' divorces as the church does not recognise divorce. To get remarried one would need to get legally divorced too, in addition to a church annulment. So how exactly church annulments serve to suppress divorce statistics is beyond me. Is Selma suggesting a Goan Catholic can get his marriage annulled by the Church and re-marrry without going through a legal divorce? -------- Selma writes: "For one thing, a few months back the Goa government was trying to institute a law for mandatory HIV testing before marriage. The reason for this was pre-marital sex, usually by the male partner, who then carried the disease to his unknowing partner. A lot of this pre-marital sex takes place with prostitutes who are at risk for HIV and other STDs. The same is true of extra-marital sex. Men visiting prostitutes carry the HIV virus to their wives. Unlike the west, where the HIV virus is more likely to be transmitted male-to-male, in Africa and Asia, the transmission is more likely to be male to female." Cecil: Thanks for the education Selma I never would have known that AIDS transmission through homosexuality is more prevalent in the west than in Asia. How exactly all that proves your statement about Goa, that "Extra-marital and pre-marital sex is as frequent and prevalent as anywhere in the West" is again beyond my comprehension. In fact you are making it clear that sexual habits in the West are different from those in Asia. ---------- Finally some statistical quotes from Selma: "The all India occurrence of STDs in the age group of 18 to 30 is as high as 48 to 52 per cent! ~ Premarital sex among 18- to 20-year-olds in metros is as high as 65.6 per cent amongst girls and 63.3 amongst boys. Extramarital affairs amongst married couples in the age group of 18 to 30 is as high as 10 to12 per cent. Post-30, this figure increases due to the onset of boredom in marriages. Cecil: Very interesting statistics. Where exactly is Goa mentioned? Where is the comparison to the West? I cannot make a statement, for example, that rape is on the increase in Sanquelim and post-marital sex on the decrease in Dona Paula and when asked for proof I quote all-Goa statistics which nowhere specifically name Dona Paula or Sanquelim. This is absurd! --------- Selma: In addition to statistics and links to articles, the best evidence I have is empirical based on confidences shared and observations made. Cecil: One definition of 'empirical' is "verifiable or provable by means of observation or experiment". Till now nothing you have presented is empirical, taking into consideration the original statements you are trying to defend. In fact another word for 'confidences shared and observations made' is gossip! ---------------- Selma: If you wish to continue splitting hairs you are welcome to do so but I'm afraid I have neither the time nor the inclination to indulge in such bait games. Cecil: I am not playing games Selma nor do I wish to split hairs, and I too have a busy life of my own . I have successfully proved now and before that sometimes you make dramatic statements about the situation in Goa without having an inkling as to the true picture. If you want to make, for audience effect, nonsensical statements about international politics or philosophy or religion or whatever I wouldn't care less. But when you make absurd statements about the Goa I love and where I live I have to intervene and set the records straight. Divorce rates in Goa are probably on the increase but to state that they are spiralling is to give an unnecessary dramatic twist that gives a different picture. Extra and pre-marital sexual activities are probably in the increase in Goa too but I doubt that they are in any way dramatically different from the rest of India and definitely are nowhere on par with the west. If your intention was just to draw attention to your fine voice Selma, you have definitely succeeded. But the best voice falls flat if not backed with thought and knowledge. Cheers! Cecil ====== _______________________________________________ Goanet mailing list Goanet@lists.goanet.org http://lists.goanet.org/listinfo.cgi/goanet-goanet.org
