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Contact Rosario Fernandes +1 (905) 858-0871 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Cornel DaCosta wrote: 1: a sharp reduction in posts for reasons of finance with thousands here losing their jobs from junior doctor to consultant and whole hospitals scheduled for closure. Personally, I blame it on poor management and Blair personally especially over the severe shortage of dentists in the NHS. 2: The key point is that even if the doctors who took the case to the High Court had won, it would have been a useless victory. This is because one first needs a job to train and as perhaps 250+ junior doctors apply for a single post, it is virtually impossible to get a job in the current climate. 3: there is hardly anything ever in print about consultants favouring older/experienced overseas doctors in preference to new young UK graduates. With the former, the consultant got the safe pair of hands to allow him to do private work, travel to conferences etc Gilbert Lawrence added 4: The "ground reality" is that in the USA and likely in the rest of the world, over the next decade there is going to be a real shortage of doctors. This is because of en-masse retirement of the "baby boomer" generation. We are already seeing this medical shortage in the USA, especially in rural America. 5: The British government together with the BMA (British Medical Association) could work with Commonwealth governments to see how this could be resolved into a win-win-win situation for all. This rather than trying to absolve themselves with some high flying rhetoric. 6: Thus Britain could train these doctors (use them as low-paying house officers), while training them in specialities that the "movers and shakers" in various countries can see a medical shortage down the line. Perhaps you could pass this on to Mr. Keith Vaz, MP and others, including the Indian physician associations in UK. jc's input: Some good and reasoned points from Cornel and Gilbert. Here are some of my views re 1: That is an important point. After Maggie Thatcher started tinkering with the NHS (National Health Service), Blair (who should have known better) gave the NHS on a platter to the Trusts. It became significantly about 'Poixe'. Many decisions continue to be made for the physicians by non-medical administrators and 'hospital bed managers'. Waiting periods are huge (hence outsourcing was considered - cost effective but short sighted ) and some hospitals are also asking nurses and doctors to work one day free! Interesting that admin did not recommend a 3.34% (1 day's worth) pay cut for themselves. == re 2: That has been a problem from ever since I can remember. It is just a scramble for a itsy-bitsy two week locum post - one month in Wales, and three months later in scotland ...if one is so lucky. (Unless of course, one was fortunate enough to work with the Prof) (:-) The only way to succeed in the UK (as a non-EU citizen) is to come do what one has to do, gain whatever experience one can get and plan to move ASAP. Whatever the scenario, one has to have enough funds to cover for oneself. Otherwise, it is an absolute mess to see such brilliant minds waste away on One McDonald Hamburger a day, hoping for a locum to come up somewhere or another. We met many .. one such individual (he is half Goan) ...We invited him to our place ..he even asked "Can I have another piece of curried chicken"? How sad is that after all those years of study and work? Fortunately for this doctor, he is presently comfortable - with EU rights. He married his long time (pre-UK days) sweetheart ....she happens to be an EU citizen. == re 3: That is it Cornel. That is it. Those consultants who are having a cushy time ...did very little for these highly qualified and capable doctors from India et elsewhere. They have these superb Indian (et al) doctors working for pittance while they enjoy 'folga'. They should have anticipated this legislation. It was on the cards. The UK acceeded to the EU (EEC) a long time ago. EU Expansion has been going on for several years. These consultants could have found a method for these physicians who would definitely be at risk. But they just sat there and said ...."Amh...Amkam Kityak?" These overseas doctors too ...should have planned for this. Cricket, Bhangra and Bollywood is fine .... you've to look for avenues ...esp when you have children with you. BTW: It is surprising that some of these docs with occasional short-term (locum) posts/per year had families with them. Mark you .... the vast majority of desi chaps I saw in the UK (or who apply from the UK to here) - and whom I have the opportunity to talk to or interview (Thank you Vonage) are very poor in their expressed English. They appear to know their stuff ...but communication is just not their forte (to put it mildly). I'd prefer our folks directly from GMC anyday. They not only are solid in their knowledge they speak well and they work very hard. They have earned a solid reputation here. == re 4: That may or may not be true. Tons of "factories" are sprouting up all over the world - many with US links. Some Medical Colleges in India have NRI (read US) streams e.g. Manipal. Even so, if a non-US citizen or green card holder wishes to get into a training post (except perhaps in radiology) in the USA, he/she will only be accorded J1 (J one) visa status. This technically (initially courtesy the Indian Govt) means that once a doctor has done the dog's work in residency programs ...he/she has to return to the home country for 2-5 years and reapply for a substantive post from there. You know how easy it is to get a simple travel to US visa from India...do you not?. Sure, many have overcome J1 troubles by taking rural postings (while wondering about the future of their own kids in those rural places in the US) or married one with US status. == re 5: I cannot see that happening for most of the docs who are floating around working only a few months a year ....for decades!. Now there is EU Art 25 which will make it even more competitive. == re 6: There can NEVER be a post in the UK called a "low paying SHO" post. Incidentaly, ALL SHO posts will be scrapped effective Sep 2007. Creating a special "low paying SHO" post in the UK will land the Department of Health into far greater soup then they now are in. 20 years ago, a bunch (more than 100) doctors from Andhra landed in Jamaica on one BA flight.. and offered to work for only Food and Accomodation. Fortunately, the Medical Association of Jamaica and Junior Doctors Association did not allow that to happen. These doctors were accomodated as a one off situation. I thought that the Jamaican Govt was very kind. And so it was ...even though it lowered the net worth of doctors from India. Now, all India qualified doctors wishing to work in Jamaica, have to pass a tough Qualifying Exam. good wishes jc Happy to note that those Goan doctors (now settled in the UK) who were entitled to EU nationality ...took the advice and obtained the Portuguese nationality.