Over to you Senhor Gabriel de Figuereido. Don't let this sully against Senhor Ismail Gracias another Lotlecar go unanswered.
Roland On 2014-04-05 5:23 PM, "Santosh Helekar" <chimbel...@gmail.com> wrote: > I express incredulity based on actual reports that I have read in > contemporaneous sources about corruption and crookedness in the > Portuguese administration. It is not based on third person hearsay or > from the misty nostalgic childhood memories of summer holidays in Goa. > > So as promised, I provide below examples of corruption and crookedness > in the Portuguese "system" from published sources documented in real > time as the events were unfolding. I will provide only two examples > for now with names of three high ranking public officials. I will > provide more examples later, if needed. > > Both examples I give below have to do with the purchase and sale of > Goa's staple food - rice. Both were serious scandals by any standard. > The first one was particularly massive, and took place in 1936. It > involved hundreds of Goan landlords and public officials, including > district officers who were retired Portuguese military men, as well as > the members of the Rice Board appointed by the Governor-General. Two > of the biggest land owners in Salcete were implicated and charged with > criminal offenses. One report indicated that over 250 people were > charged with fraud, and this was merely the beginning. These corrupt > private businessmen and government servants had forged official > documents (rice manifests) on a massive scale and violated the > protectionist and price control laws enacted by the government. The > contemporaneous news report said that this organized fraud network in > Goa had created a new manufacturing industry overnight - the wholesale > manufacturing of rice manifests with over-inflated figures. > > So what happened to these hundreds of crooked and corrupt Portuguese > administrators and citizens of Portuguese Goa in the end? > > For the most part, nothing. Not even a slap on the wrist. > > Only the board was replaced by a new board, and some of the district > officers went back to their retired military life. The > Governor-General went back to Lisbon and another took his place. In > fact, one Craveiro Lopes was replaced by another Craveiro Lopes. That > is to say, Major Higino Craveiro Lopes took the musical chair of > General Craveiro Lopes. > > The second corruption scandal was called the "Bogus Rice Deal". It > took place in 1954-55. It cost the Goan exchequer Rs. 35 lakhs. The > Lisbon government suspected three high ranking Portuguese officials in > Goa to be the culprits behind it - the Chief of the Cabinet, Captain > Carmo Ferreira, the Police Chief, Captain Romba and another official > named Ismail Gracias. Again, nobody took any action against these > individuals. Justice, Goan style as always. > > That was the Portuguese system in Goa. If you need more examples of > crookedness and corruption from this system I would be happy to > provide them. > > Cheers, > > Santosh > > > > On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:31 PM, roland.francis < > roland.fran...@ymail.com> wrote: > > > Jose and Santosh babs, > > > > JC's undermentioned post takes care of my reply in a better manner than I > > could have done. > > > > WHAT SYSTEM Santosh? > > A system where honesty, clean public administration, speedy justice, and > the > > economic good of the people within the means available, trumped personal, > > illegal, pecuniary gain perpetrated in mega doses and without impunity. > > > > Santoshbab, there are many things that have to be visualized and > experienced > > like in your scientific world in order to be believed. Otherwise one > expresses > > incredulity like you have done. > > > > You are pessimistic about Portuguese administration, not having seen it > or > > experienced it. To that extent I can excuse your disbelief. > > > > Roland. > > > > > > Sent from Samsung Mobile > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Jose Colaco <cola...@gmail.com> > > Date: 04-04-2014 8:09 AM (GMT-05:00) > > To: Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com>,"Goa's premiere > > mailing list, estb. 1994!" <goanet@lists.goanet.org> > > Cc: "roland.francis" <roland.fran...@ymail.com> > > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Incubator For Political Crooks? > > > > On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > "How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese > administration, > > and when? What system did not allow it?" > > > > > > COMMENT: > > > > While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I believe > it > > would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks from > the > > Portuguese administration that he knows of. > > > > Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to > > prove/disprove the negative. > > > > Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes > and > > perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court. > > > > ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and > > policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans. > > > > Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to > live > > without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public > > administration to flourish? > > > > Might be a good idea to prove it. > > > > jc > > > > On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > I like to consult contemporary or historical writings for facts about > > our history. I will retrieve from what I have read in the past the > > names and/or designations of public officials who were reported to be > > corrupt and crooked in the Portuguese administration when I have some > > free time later. But asking to substantiate a factual statement by > > Roland is not asking to prove a negative. All he has to do is tell us > > where he got that factual information from. Given the fact that there > > was no freedom of the press in Goa during the Portuguese rule, most of > > the claims made by lay people are hearsay, and for the most part, > > wrong. As for Josebab's understanding below, we know very well that in > > the post-Portuguese Goa many of the administrative officials who are > > known to be crooked and corrupt are also Goans, some of whom were > > educated during the Portuguese rule. My observation has been that > > corruption and crookedness does not have anything do with education, > > race > > or religion. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Santosh > > > > > >> On Friday, April 4, 2014 7:09 AM, Jose Colaco <cola...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > On Apr 4, 2014, at 1:12 AM, Santosh Helekar <chimbel...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > >> "How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese > administration, > >> and when? What system did not allow it?" > >> > >> > >> COMMENT: > >> > >> While Roland does the needful to answer Santoshbab's question, I > believe it > >> would help IF Santoshbab identified at least a couple of the crooks > from the > >> Portuguese administration that he knows of. > >> > >> Otherwise, at this moment, it appears as though Roland is being asked to > >> prove/disprove the negative. > >> > >> Such techniques are possibly brilliant in Debates, Political skirmishes > and > >> perhaps in the Court of Public Opinion; NOT in any reasonable court. > >> > >> ps: it is my understanding that the Vast Majority of administrators and > >> policemen in Portuguese Goans were Goans. > >> > >> Is the suggestion being made here that A SYSTEM which enabled Goans to > live > >> without locking their front doors, actually allowed Corruption in public > >> administration to flourish? > >> > >> Might be a good idea to prove it. > >> > >> jc > > > > Santosh wrote: > >> > >>How is Roland sure that there were no crooks in Portuguese > administration, and when? What system did not allow it? > >> > >>Cheers, > >> > >>Santosh > > > >> On Friday, April 4, 2014 12:02 AM, roland.francis < > roland.fran...@ymail.com> wrote: > >> > A very recent Goa news item says that one-third of Goa candidates > have criminal > >> records. > >> > >> I am not anti Indian or pro Portuguese or anything of the sort but > knowing that > >> in Potuguese Goa there was no crook in the administration (the system > just > >> didn't allow it) and now learning that fully one third of Goan > politicians > >> are crooks, a result of the Indian dispensation, one is tempted to ask > VMinGoa > >> or his other avatar VMdeMalar whether "better" Indian education or > >> "inferior" Potuguese education had anything to do with this? > >> > >> Roland. > > ***************************************************************** > > No offense meant. But let the chips fall where they may. > > *****************************************************************> > > > > -- > ***************************************************************** > No offense meant. But let the chips fall where they may. > ***************************************************************** >
