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Visit http://www.garcabranca.com for details/booking/confirmation. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Hello Cornell, I understand you. I believe it was you who mentioned in the recent past that you have never been directly affected by casteism, but yet it is something that you are against, and would like to bring about its erasure. This is truly egalitarian. I will make two points one on relationships, and on caste as a vote bank. There is a pathological hunger for maintaining and revelling in caste as a status quos. The intensities of that hunger in the modern world manifest themselves in myriad ways; seemingly unrelated to a obvious relationships with caste practices. In modernity one is formed within modernisms through intercourses which include, education, travel, socializing, language--its articulation, abstraction in formes, and learned motivations. Such interactions allow for communing between individuals of various political, social, and cultural determinants. There may appear to be an erasing of the caste politic in question; but not ideas of demarcation and "privilege", although we may quite openly espouse acceptance. So, although one may not be able to see caste per se in choices that involve relationships, friendships, and marriages by only looking at criteria, which encompasses ones social value in recent modernity--if one were to use the yardstick of yesteryears, it becomes quite apparent that not much has changed. It not that nothing has changed, but that, nothing much has changed. What has changed is the ability of more individuals to attempt, and achieve what was denied their forefathers and foremothers. The anger and frustrations of casteists come about when individuals attempt parity by casting their eyes towards what was not available earlier, but now seems within reach--ergo friendships, relationships and marriages, and so forth. In modernity, the rules of the game get altered! But in nations such as ours the desire is to have one cake and eat it too. Furthermore where one chooses to live, eat and may take one recreation becomes a concern. The mingling of minds, ideas, beliefs, and genetic pools is not taken for granted . At least this has been my observation. In that sense we prefer the world where someone will always be a babdo. To babdo, bongoun babdea chem. Chucchure babddea chem. Or in its English parlance--poor fellow man, poor fellow. India as a power means different things to various peoples and institutions. This should be another topic sometime in the future, and is a lot of work to even think upon. But I doubt the power brokers in India feels ashamed. It just may spoil their champagne sipping soiree, since personas come crashing down when confronted by those one is ardently emulating. But all is okay for the moment when one signs away a tiny bit more of sovereigty. Indian diplomats are so well versed in detail and arcana that they ususally exhaust their counterparts, and live for another day. Frightening but true. But every so often a bit more is lost. We need fair governance for our people, but a lot is steadily extracted from every government by pointing to our human rights, caste system and so forth. Its a one way extraction, buts thats power. The ones who ahve to give up a little in the large battles albeit ever so slowly take it out on others. We, India as a nation will continue being coy for a long time, since changes achieved through equality are not acceptable to all. We will see slow movements towards equality. But as we have seen in national politics; the benefits of caste politics are huge to the lower caste parties if one watches Bihar, Uttar Pradesha and other certain other states. So other than the Mahars, most parties are happy to carve their share while often keeping their own people woefully subservient. Because this clout as in seats can be exchanged for something. This is how MP Laloo gets the Railway ministrywhich has the second largest workforce in the world; as opposed to say the Defense ministry. These are all incorporated into their political calculations. Do you recollect the Mandal commission-that was another avatar from the other side. Its pretty furious politics is all I can say for now. Venantius J Pinto > From: "CORNEL DACOSTA" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Venantius > > Thanks for an interesting post. I have some texts (as outcomes of academic > studies) on caste among the Muslims. The debate that I have followed on this > issue is about the degree of intensity of that caste association. Some claim > that it is minimal and others that there is much more than meets the eye. > > However, my position is that caste in any community in India is a distinct > form of racism i.e. it has all the analytical properties of racism. There > is no place for it in modern society even though India has fought shy to > admit to this form of racism at international conferences on racism.