I always like a genuine argument based on facts and honest disagreement, which does not involve bogus insinuations and fabricated narratives that are repeated over and over again. Unfortunately, the post appended below is not an example of a genuine intellectually honest argument. It is a clear example of a spurious ideological smear piece, of the type that I and others have spoken out against. Please note that as is the case quite often this bogus propaganda is being carried out by the administrator of Goanet, himself. As usual, it involves blatant falsification of the facts that I have stated, and fabrication of a purely self-serving ideological narrative, complete with hackneyed straw men, red herrings and insinuations.
An example of outright falsification of the facts that were presented in the video I had provided is the following claim: "The Swedish video is an interesting one, but I couldn't help notice that it talks about the economy -- and not about what Helekar labels scientific progress or modern scientific medicine." ....Admin Noronha The above claim is dishonest and bogus because any objective person who watches the video will note that the graph shown is not just about the economy. On the Y-axis life expectancy of human beings in years is presented. Any scientifically literate person knows that life expectancy is a good measure of progress in medicine and health care. It is also well known that economic development, as indicated by increase in per capita income (shown on the X-axis) over the last 200 years is because of scientific and technological progress. Indeed, Prof. Hans Rosling in the video explicitly mentions industrial revolution and technological advancement as causes of the rapid rise in income. Two examples of outright fabrication of a bogus narrative as well as dishonest insinuation, that have nothing to do with facts presented, are the following: QUOTE By simply reducing a lengthier web address to a tiny-url and embedding Goanet's name in it does not make the debate any more relevant to the wider issues (including, a critique of corporatised science and its implications) often discussed on Goanet. UNQUOTE ....Admin Noronha QUOTE Goanet has also been "used" by people with an undying faith in a science-can-do-no-wrong ideology, and their own ideology is tasteless, colourless and odorless enough to them and therefore implies a lack of ideology. Or by those who believe that taunting individuals with a particular point of view is the best way to diminish "scientific illiteracy" and take rationalism forward. UNQUOTE .....Admin Noronha Regarding the first quote, please ask yourself: Why would anybody want to make a big deal of the simple fact that a tiny url was used for convenience of the readers? Why would any person, let alone a Goanet administrator, want to use this insinuation to malign a contributor to a public forum? Any reasonable moderator/administrator of an internet forum would have welcomed such a practice because the readers are better served by it. Regarding the second quote, besides being another clear demonstration of Admin Noronha's habit of gratuitously smearing others with bogus insinuations and innuendo, it is also the recycling of a political canard (with buzz words and dog whistles of his own political ideology) that has been discredited several times before by me and others, including the late Cornel Da Costa and George Pinto. Examples of these tools of political propaganda are meaningless word salads such as "science-can-do-no-wrong ideology" and "corporatised science". Instead of wasting time on them again, let me point to the following earlier posts and pertinent quotes of mine, in which I have shown how bogus and disingenuous these charges are: http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg13779.html QUOTE Not a single sentence he (Admin Noronha) has ever written on Goanet about science or my attitude towards it is true. He simply makes up things about both and puts those words in my mouth. So as usual, his claim that I believe science can do no wrong is pure garbage. Those who have understood what I have written over the years know that I have always maintained that science is simply a method of thinking critically and evaluating the truth of any proposition based on objective evidence. A scientist has no illusions about being righteous or knowing the absolute truth, whatever the heck that may be. As I have said time and again, s/he merely tries to seek the best rational explanation for the natural world based on observation - an explanation that has predictive power and practical significance. Far from claiming to be infallible, science thrives on falsification of hypotheses. It is every young scientist's dream to improve upon or overthrow a previously held best scientific explanation. UNQUOTE .....Santosh Helekar http://www.mail-archive.com/goanet@lists.goanet.org/msg51114.html QUOTE Noronha claimed in his previous post that science is an ideology which has gone through phases of bigotry and intolerance, just like religious and political ideologies that we have seen in the past and are still seeing today. If he was really sincere and honest in his claims as a journalist, he would have given examples of fanatical scientific organizations or a group of scientists that are similar to Bajrang Dal, Al Quaida, Phineas Priesthood, etc. Not able to substantiate his statement he is reduced to accusing Goanetters like me who are merely stating facts and opinions in an internet forum, and sharing what little we know with our fellow Goans, of being bigoted and intolerant. Noronha wants you to believe that defending and promoting the rational scientific mindset, debunking quackery and correcting misinformation in a public forum is morally equivalent to being bigoted and intolerant like the ideological extremists who want to ban books, destroy works of art, threaten artists or kill innocent people. Is this a new advancement in moral and cultural relativism? UNQUOTE .....Santosh Helekar So what we have here appended below is nothing but a hopeless smear job carried out by an administrator of Goanet in response to hard facts presented to back up my claim that the world as a whole has progressed rapidly in the post-colonial period as a direct consequence of advancement in science and modern medicine. Despite this hopelessness, I would like to find out whether Admin Noronha is really interested in, and at all capable of, engaging in a genuine argument based on facts. In that spirit I would like to ask him to present hard factual evidence to back up the rest of the claims and implications made by him. These claims are as follows: QUOTE That "scientific progress" and "modern scientific medicine" is not the only factor to be credited with improving human lives. (as indicated by the parameters shown in the graph in the video) UNQUOTE ....Admin Noronha QUOTE That there could be alternative routes to healing, which may well work in some cases,.... UNQUOTE ....Admin Noronha That my last post, or for that mattter, any of my posts defending anti-scientific propaganda and scientific literacy imply that I am claiming that individuals and governments that make use of science cannot make errors and launch wars, and that I am blocking access of Goanetters or anybody else to superstitions and alternative treatments. Cheers, Santosh --- On Thu, 12/2/10, Frederick Noronha <fredericknoro...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Goanet has also been "used" by people > with an undying faith in a > science-can-do-no-wrong ideology, and their own ideology is > tasteless, > colourless and odorless enough to them and therefore > implies a lack > of ideology. Or by those who believe that taunting > individuals with a > particular point of view is the best way to diminish > "scientific > illiteracy" and take rationalism forward. > > The claims made below have more to do with creating > straw-men and then > going about demolishing the same with great ease. > Naturally. > > By simply reducing a lengthier web address to a tiny-url > and embedding > Goanet's name in it does not make the debate any more > relevant to the > wider issues (including, a critique of corporatised science > and its > implications) often discussed on Goanet. > > To be fair, I think what has often been argued on Goanet is > not what > Helekar claims, but the following: > > 1. That not everything is necessarily better off in > post-colonial > times, and a few things have actually deteriorated for the > worse > since. > > 2. That life expectancies were far lower, on average, in > earlier times > (whether colonial or not, including in the non-colonised > world), but > some people did live healthier lives then too. Also, the > diseases of > affluence, which have since crept in and turned widespread > today, were > restricted to a tiny section then. > > 3. That "scientific progress" and "modern scientific > medicine" is not > the only factor to be credited with improving human lives. > That even > the "progress" of science and medicine has come accompanied > with some > gross errors, the misuse and abuse of science and > technology (for > purposes like war, etc) and the like. > > 4. That there could be alternative routes to healing, which > may well > work in some cases, and still is the only or main option > for a large > number of people in the planet -- for reasons of > economics, > preference, tradition, access, whatever. These can neither > be wished > away, nor should people who opt for these be blocked from > accessing > the same using the excuses and labels like "ncient > superstitions, > faith-based nostrums, religious rituals and paranormal > practices". > > The Swedish video is an interesting one, but I couldn't > help notice > that it talks about the economy -- and not about what > Helekar labels > scientific progress or modern scientific medicine. > > To bandy issues of economy with science, colonialism with > affluence > seems to me to be more ideological thrust rather than a > logical, > convincing argument. FN >
