Since my last post I've started using jQuery paired with GSon. Though
I barely know javascript, the ease with which I was able to take data
from my GAE backend and stick it into already-designed HTML in an
AJAXy manner was breathtaking. I think I'll be able to live without
GWT's RPC for this one project. I certainly see the appeal of GWT,
I'm used to building sophisticated desktop UIs. But for this app
whose UI will resemble a basic tumblr site, I think jquery+gson is the
right fit for the job. Now if only I could figure out history
management/simple URLs/bookmark support, I'd be golden!
On Sep 10, 8:08 pm, "Ikai L (Google)" <ika...@google.com> wrote:
> It's very hard to use GWT's RPC mechanism without using GWT. GWT's RPC
> mechanism is nice because it provides a server side implementation, but on
> the client side, you're still creating an AsyncCallback and programming in
> an asynchronous manner. This is an area where Javascript really shines
> because of first class functions you can pass around (not available in Java)
> and closures (not available in Java unless you count anonymous inner
> classes).
>
> Rather than look at a single feature, look at the bigger picture. With GWT,
> you get a ton of useful widgets and a way to programmatically (or via XML
> via UiBinder) define your UI, you get an out-of-the-box event bus and
> history manager. This is actually a pretty neat way to develop a web app
> because you can compose widgets of widgets. I'd probably pick jQuery for
> more "web page" like interaction or applications with a less desktop like
> experience, because the interface for working with the DOM is one of the
> best I've ever used (to select and hide all parents of list elements with a
> class "item", you'd do this: $("li.item").parents().hide());. jQuery's XHR
> interface is simple and straightforward, and combined with a library like
> Google GSON (http://code.google.com/p/google-gson/), you can build XHR rich
> applications fairly easily.
>
> I personally prefer GWT for anything that has to deal with detecting where a
> mouse click is or key handler events, or something where I have to
> programmatically assemble the UI which can be represented as a hierarchical
> bag of widgets. The jQuery way would be to output some HTML and jam it into
> an element using the .html() function, which is really only a notch above
> using the DOM's innerHTML= attribute.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 10, 2010 at 4:47 AM, tempy <fay...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for the advice John. I've been reading about GQuery and it
> > does seem good, though I have some concerns about whether it might be
> > abandoned. I think my plan is to learn JQuery, as I feel like that
> > should also teach me a lot about how the browser operates, which is a
> > gap in my knowledge. I think I should learn something "close to the
> > metal" (metal being browser in this case) before moving on to
> > frameworks that abstract the browser away to a greater extent. I
> > guess if I use JQuery, switching to GQuery at any time should not be
> > problematic, and I get the best of both worlds. And I would sure love
> > to hang on to GWT's RPC mechanism.
>
> > Mike
>
> > On Sep 10, 12:56 am, John Patterson <jdpatter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > BTW, you can use GWT in a manor very similar to JQuery. Take a look a
> > > GQuery by Ray Cromwell. He has an incredible benchmark page which
> > > dynamically shows how GQuery out performs JQuery in almost every measure.
>
> > > On 10 September 2010 05:53, John Patterson <jdpatter...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > You might want to look into Sitebricks which is a Google developed web
> > app
> > > > framework built on top of Guice. It is a simple request response
> > processor
> > > > with no fancy "component" abstractions like Wicket or Tapestry. This
> > model
> > > > fits in very well with GWT (or other client frameworks) which request
> > data
> > > > via RPC or small snippets of rendered html to assemble on the client.
>
> > > > It is still very much in active development so you have to be prepared
> > to
> > > > dig into the code and figure out the plumbing yourself. The author,
> > Dhanji,
> > > > has built a fantastic API here - simple, powerful and clever.
>
> > > >http://code.google.com/p/google-sitebricks/
>
> > > > John
>
> > > > On 10 September 2010 05:35, tempy <fay...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> Thanks for the explanation Chris!
>
> > > >> Guess I'm learning jquery, golly, I'll be a real web programmer yet.
> > > >> =)
>
> > > >> On Sep 9, 7:58 pm, "Chris (Google Employee)" <api.ch...@google.com>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > Hi Mike,
>
> > > >> > I think the reason we don't explicitly publish a list of "frontend
> > > >> > frameworks that play well with App Engine" is because there really
> > is
> > > >> > no technical barrier between front end frameworks that work in the
> > > >> > browser such as JQuery, etc and the backend (App Engine). Many App
> > > >> > Engine users make full use of a myriad of front end technologies/
> > > >> > frameworks for UI creation ranging from HTML5/JS/CSS to flash etc.
>
> > > >> > JQuery is especially popular for a variety of Web app usages, so if
> > > >> > that works for you, I'd definitely continue trying it out.
>
> > > >> > Hope this helps,
> > > >> > -Chris
>
> > > >> > On Sep 9, 10:43 am, tempy <fay...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > >> > > Hello all,
>
> > > >> > > A little background... I'm mostly new to web frontend development,
> > I
> > > >> > > come from a mostly backend and desktop background. I have a GAEj
> > app
> > > >> > > that provides the backend for a rather sophisticated
> > desktop/mobile
> > > >> > > app. This backend will also drive a website in addition to the
> > > >> > > desktop/mobile app.
>
> > > >> > > The website will show a small subset of the data in the system. I
> > > >> > > started with GWT, but it doesn't seem to be quite right. The
> > website
> > > >> > > is for presentation of a small subset of the system's data only,
> > and
> > > >> > > users do not interact with the data in any way other than
> > searching
> > > >> > > for it. As the data is mostly unstructured text and some images,
> > I
> > > >> > > feel most comfortable formatting it with plain old html/css. In
> > fact,
> > > >> > > the layout of the site will be minimal and look a lot like a blog.
> > As
> > > >> > > such, the website should certainly not feel like a single-page
> > "web
> > > >> > > application" a la gmail. With GWT, I have little use for widgets
> > and
> > > >> > > find myself constantly fighting with it to get a non-application
> > look-
> > > >> > > and-feel.
>
> > > >> > > The only functionality that I thus really need from GWT is the RPC
> > > >> > > component, the page should be AJAX, I don't want to do round trips
> > to
> > > >> > > the server for every navigation event.
>
> > > >> > > So, I'm not quite sure which framework to use with the GAEj
> > backend.
> > > >> > > At first GWT seemed like a natural fit, but now seems like
> > overkill.
> > > >> > > I'm doing some research on jquery, but I haven't seen a list of
> > > >> > > "frontend frameworks that play well on GAEj" anywhere.
>
> > > >> > > Thanks for any advice,
> > > >> > > Mike
>
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> --
> Ikai Lan
> Developer Programs Engineer, Google App Engine
> Blog:http://googleappengine.blogspot.com
> Twitter:http://twitter.com/app_engine
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