David, I appreciate the effort involved in developing and maintaining the much needed standard in healthcare. The CCR standard has been well received by both Google Health and MS Healthvault which is a testament to the fact that it is well designed. ATSM has put in considerable work to improve the healthcare standards well making near no profit. Well I understand requesting the modest amounts of reimbursement from commercial interests, there are also those that don't represent a commercial interest and are not looking to profit. An example would be an open source developer or a student. Do you think it might be possible for the ASTM to update the policy to allow free access to the CCR standard in the circumstances that the person does not represent commercial interests looking to make a profit?
- Jim On Tue, Nov 24, 2009 at 8:16 AM, David Kibbe <kibbeda...@mac.com> wrote: > Dear Colleagues: As volunteer Chair of the E31 Technical Committee at > ASTM, where the CCR standard was developed and is maintained, I'd be the > first to wish that the CCR standard's components could be free for use. The > fact is that the committee membership fees ($75 a year), and the fees for > the standard for non-members ($160 for all components, a one time fee with > no recurring or royalty payments) are the only sources of funds that ASTM > gets as recuperation of their costs. > > The CCR standard, like all standards from Standards Development > Organizations, or SDOs, takes a lot of meetings and significant > administrative support to get out the door. The CCR standard was developed > to ANSI accreditation standards, in an open and consensus building process, > by an industry committee open to all willing to participate and pay $75 a > year for the privilege. This is a far more "open" process than many other > standards organizations involved in health care IT today. > > ASTM is one of the oldest SDOs in the world, developing standards for the > avionics, petroleum, air quality, and hundreds of other industries. > > Having said all this, there are other ways to develop standards that > wouldn't require an industry-sponsored SDO. The government could issue its > own standards, for example. We could let Google set and publish the > standard. This does not mean the standard would be "free," only that it > would be subsidized by a single, controlling entity instead of being > developed in the open. Every approach has its benefits and disadvantages. > You get what you work for, errr, I mean pay for. > > The CCR standard has been a "good deal" for the industry so far, in my > humble opinion. *If there is significant interest in the industry in > moving the CCR standard to another venue or SDO, then let's discuss how to > do that. *But I think ASTM is doing a good job. > > Very kind regards, dCK > > > David C. Kibbe, MD MBA > Senior Advisor, American Academy of Family Physicians > Chair, ASTM International E31Technical Committee on Healthcare Informatics > Principal, The Kibbe Group LLC > ___________ > > 913-205-7968 mobile > ___________ > dki...@aafp.org > kibbeda...@mac.com > > CONFIDENTIALITY: This e-mail message (including attachments, if any) is > confidential and is intended only for the addressee. Any unauthorized use or > disclosure is strictly prohibited. Disclosure of this e-mail to anyone other > than the intended addressee does not constitute waiver of privilege. If you > have received this communication in error, please notify me immediately and > delete this. Thank you for your cooperation. This message has not been > encrypted. Special arrangements can be made for encryption upon request. > > > > > > On Nov 23, 2009, at 1:43 PM, Michael Jahn wrote: > > Hi Jim, > > It is perfectly normal to be confused. Many people are often confused by > why ISO 'sells' the specifications, especially when they are to be used > without needing to pay any licensing fee even when incorporated in a > commercial product. > > As someone whom has been to many many CGATS, ANSI and ISO meetings, has > paid dues to associations and standards organizations, sat of commitees and > sub committees - I sure which I could get some of the fees they collect ! > > LOL > > The fact is, Standards take a LOT of work to build. there are meetings, in > some cases international meetings, they are days long, that requires hotels > and airfare - and lots of minutes, drafts, powerpoints - wiki management - > that all costs money - ASTM, ISO - these orgs have full time employees and > have to bank roll all that. > > having said that, when I contacted someone at Google Health directly, he > email me this link; > > http://code.google.com/apis/health/docs/2.0/reference.html > > So - I guess that's that. > > If you were an Adobe LiveCycle user, I do have an .xsd file (CCR XML Schema > file) I could email you privately... > > Send me a request to michaelej...@gmail.com and I will be happy to share > it with you. > > > > Michael Jahn > Jahn & Associates > PDF Conversion Specialist > 1824 North Garvin Avenue > Simi Valley > California 93065 > Office: (805) 527 8130 > Cell: (805) 217 6741 > Email: michaelej...@gmail.com > Skype: michaelejahn > Twitter: http://twitter.com/michaelejahn > Blog: http://michaelejahn.blogspot.com/ > > > > > On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Jim Pharis <binbr...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Completely confused me. Isn't CCR an open standard. How would an open >> source project integrating with Google Health/MSHV that requires a schema >> definition of what those free services offer work around this? Would have to >> essentially write your own schema which would be based on a regirous spec so >> look almost identical? >> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2009 at 11:22 AM, Ken Miller <ken.mil...@solventus.com>wrote: >> >>> Yes, that's the full CCR schema. Please keep in mind that this >>> is copyrighted to ASTM and its use in a real-world project requires an ASTM >>> membership, which is very reasonable ($75/yr, which covers an entire >>> organization). If you would like to get a copy of the schema for testing and >>> evaluation purposes from ASTM directly, you can request it from Dan Smith at >>> dsm...@astm.org. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> Ken Miller >>> Solventus LLC >>> www.solventus.com >>> (305) 349 3493 >>> Sales & Support: (866) 891 0537 x703 >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Reggie Pangilinan < >>> reggiepangili...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Hello Guys, >>>> >>>> Isnt this the full CCR schema? >>>> http://developer.healthvault.com/types/type.aspx?id=1e1ccbfc-a55d-4d91-8940-fa2fbf73c195 >>>> >>>> I would like to create an application that will be able to >>>> communicate/sync records with both google health and ms healthvault, and i >>>> stumbled upon this topic. >>>> >>>> I will be designing my database based on CCR schema. Am i on the right >>>> track? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> <http://developer.healthvault.com/types/type.aspx?id=1e1ccbfc-a55d-4d91-8940-fa2fbf73c195>Reggie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Google Health Developers" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> googlehealthdevelop...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> googlehealthdevelopers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<googlehealthdevelopers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/googlehealthdevelopers?hl=. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Google Health Developers" group. >> To post to this group, send email to >> googlehealthdevelop...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> googlehealthdevelopers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<googlehealthdevelopers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/googlehealthdevelopers?hl=. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google Health Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to > googlehealthdevelop...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > googlehealthdevelopers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/googlehealthdevelopers?hl=. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Google Health Developers" group. > To post to this group, send email to > googlehealthdevelop...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > googlehealthdevelopers+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<googlehealthdevelopers%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/googlehealthdevelopers?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Google Health Developers" group. 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