Oh, ya one more important. Since Dileep was reporting, he kept to what I said before the "mike".
I said, while reading Gandhi and even Guru literary, you find ugly, despicable things are represented as women. Women assumes metonyms for evil. whereas you don;t find any such references in Ambedkar. While in Marx, this is represented as "savage". Then I saw TV Madhu smiling. Immediately I added, with my limited reading. As I have not scholarly read all the works of these giants. On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:46 PM, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > To be specific: *Emancipation versus Reconciliation.* . > frankly, little bit tired.. or may be fatigue.. so I may not be able to > elaborate. > > On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 8:43 PM, damodar prasad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> Dileep, >> >> hahahah...It is only half-reported. I was more responding to Nizar. >> >> One of the point I made was this: >> In Gandhi, you don't have the idea of "emanicipation. There is only >> reconciliation. Where as in Ambedkar, there is the idea of Liberation. In >> Marxism as well you find the idea of emancipation. .Though gandhi was >> working in the larger context of freedom struggle, he did not advance an >> idea of Liberation. Liberation as if form chains, fetters etc. When you >> advance the idea of emancipation ,you have to be specific from what? Gandhi >> was vague on it. >> >> As I didn't take notes. I think may be I need to clarify from Devarajan or >> even Gopalakrishnan.. is that what I said. >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:20 PM, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >>> one more point; >>> how far Gandhi the man and Gandhi the ideology different? >>> are they poles apart? >>> that is why 13 year gandhi attracts me and the old one detracts >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:16 PM, ranju radha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >>> >>>> Dear devika, >>>> >>>> I agree. Even I dont know what Nizar said. BUt if it s the way as >>>> reported by dilip, i have not only differences in opinion. but have >>>> sympathy >>>> for the kind of intellectual exercises. that may be a personal problm. let >>>> it be so. >>>> Again, i am not looking at Gandhi as a person here. Frankly, I was >>>> influenced by Gandhi as a person, especially the 13 year old Gandhi. I am >>>> least bothered about Gandhi as a person. Gandhi as a ideology is what I am >>>> trying to oppose within my limited undestanding. Perhaps, I may need to >>>> engage more critically with Gandhi. But i really dont want to waist my >>>> energy on Gandhi. There are better things in this earth to learn. And there >>>> exist such critiques which s quite available to all. why d one waist time >>>> again and again on that. >>>> That may be my limitation and weekness. But it s not as put forth by >>>> ahmed rafeek. in fact, Nisar's arguemnts are not only week but vulgar as >>>> pointed out in this discssion (i think venugopal). and does not deserve a >>>> discussion at all. It s like celebrating the philosophy of 'untouchability' >>>> and we are seriously discussing it without refering to the way it has >>>> creeped into modern institutions. and if one make a reference to it, >>>> accusing of being "fundamentalist', 'authoritarian', 'judging' etc etc. >>>> first of all Nisar doesnt have an arguemnt and we are struggling to give >>>> him an arguement by this kinda exercise. >>>> >>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 5:16 PM, devika Jayakumari <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dear Ranjuradha >>>>> >>>>> I have no idea what Nizar spoke the other day except by way of the >>>>> report, but from what I've read of his writings on Gandhi it seems a bit >>>>> unfair to club him along with the moral cowards you encounter in Delhi, >>>>> about who you wrote and especially ashish nandy. The report seems to hint >>>>> that the clearly culpable historical figure of Gandhi may be excused as we >>>>> could view Gandhi as an interpretable, rich text. If that is the case, I >>>>> would disagree with Nizar. But I doubt whether he would take such a >>>>> vulnerable position. Since I haven't heard him speak I won't take a >>>>> position >>>>> on this. But to use epithets like 'Nandy-Nizar' is only to vent steam; it >>>>> is >>>>> just like calling someone a dumb idiot and call that criticism. Just like >>>>> the rightwingers do to us most of the time. I think this argument (if it >>>>> was >>>>> indeed made the way the report states)needs to be analysed for what it >>>>> does >>>>> and the damage it does. In fact the damage that Nandy does, and this >>>>> 'Nizar' >>>>> does may be different, and have significantly different consequences. >>>>> >>>>> There is nothing wrong, I feel, in treating Gandhi as a text provided >>>>> one is deeply aware of the role he played in shoring up soft >>>>> hindu-modernised misogynist brahmin-nationalism. He is certainly not >>>>> admirable, from my social location, as a historical figure. I think it is >>>>> necessary for us to take away much of the legacy of anticaste bhakti - >>>>> ideas, practices, techniques-- (I'm not at all surprised that he touched >>>>> Phule's feet; he did use much of Phule's insights, to ends that Phule >>>>> would >>>>> oppose) that he appropriated for elitist nationalism. Textualising and >>>>> historicising Gandhi would be a strategy to that critical end. That can be >>>>> done only by challenging precisely his claim as the progenitor of a whole >>>>> range of potent political techniques which have roots elsewhere, in the >>>>> resistances of the underprivileged. >>>>> >>>>> I think it is a great tribute to Ambedkar that he continues to inspire >>>>> as a historical figure, while also being read as a text. Gandhi has >>>>> become >>>>> a text and is no more inspiring as historical figure. >>>>> >>>>> Devika >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Green Youth Movement" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/greenyouth?hl=en-GB -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
