On Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Andrew Clausen <andrew.p.clau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Jonathan, > > On 29 December 2014 at 06:29, Jonathan McCune <jonmcc...@google.com> > wrote: > >> One solution would be to: > >> * build deterministically by default by using a constant timestamp, and > > > > I think doing this by default would be a poor choice, as most of the time > > during development it is very useful to easily identify which version / > > build / experiment / etc is in use. > > I agree that during development, timestamps might be useful. Although > I've never found them particularly helpful myself -- they aren't as > easy as, say, having a text file sitting in the same directory saying > which git commit it is. In fact, including the git commit somewhere > in the binary would be both more helpful and deterministic. (I am > happy to supply a patch for this.) Have you ever used time stamps? > > >> * add a --with-timestamps option (disabled by default), which would > >> enable honest timestamps. > >> > >> What do you think? Are you accepting patches? > > > > The availability of a flag to explicitly set a specific timestamp for the > > purpose of reproducing a build, seems sane to me. I don't think I would > > enable it by default. > > Sorry to be stubborn on this point, but I think it's quite important. > If most people are using deterministic builds, then it becomes much > easier for people to audit against each other's computers. At the > moment, when I do audits with Grub, I have to ask my > colleagues/friends to zero out the timestamp. It makes the > conversation longer, which makes me feel reluctant to inconvenience > them. So I end up doing a less thorough audit. This kind of audit > scenario arises frequently (or at least, it ought to) in work with > NGOs, journalists, law firms, etc. > > Bottom line: I think there is an important social benefit to dropping > timestamps by default. I'm not convinced timestamps are used much by > developers, and there are better alternatives such as git-commits. > No objection from me, though I'm not a maintainer. -Jon
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