On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 08:27 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > On Sep 6, 2011, at 6:53 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: > > > On Tue, 2011-09-06 at 06:37 -0700, John Ralls wrote: > >> On Sep 6, 2011, at 1:27 AM, Michael Natterer wrote: > >> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> Currently, the mapping of the Alt and Command keys on the mac > >>> is completely screwed: > >>> > >>> - The key labeled "Command" maps to GDK_MOD1_MASK (which is > >>> essentially interpreted as Alt by all existing code) > >>> > >>> - The key labeled "Alt" isn't mapped to any modifier at all > >>> > >>> Now there is a lot of discussion in these bug reports: > >>> > >>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=607115 > >>> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=605799 > >>> > >>> but at the bottom of all that is the above mentioned > >>> problem. After it's fixed we can fix whatever keymap > >>> issues in GTK on top. > >>> > >>> It seems pretty obvious to me that the key labeled > >>> "Alt" should produce GDK_MOD1_MASK because all existing > >>> code considers that being the "Alt" key. > >>> > >>> The only question is what to map "Command" to, and we > >>> are free to choose whatever, since the behavior will > >>> change away from the current one of producing GDK_MOD1_MASK > >>> anyway. > >>> > >>> I personally prefer GDK_META_MASK because it's what the > >>> "Windows" key is mapped to on PC keyboards, but that's not > >>> a strong reason (and it is, as saidm completely arbitrary > >>> anyway). > >>> > >>> Opinions? I volunteer to patch up all 3 branches once > >>> we come to an agreement. > >> > >> How long have you been using a Mac as your primary computer? On what > >> mac-native programs that you use daily is the alt/OPTION key used as a > >> stand-alone modifier for shortcuts with default settings (any preference > >> changes you've made don't count)? > > > > I don't see how this is relevant, but i bow to your experience. > > > >> How does the code "know" what key produces the mod1 bit? Why would it care? > > > > Code *knows* that MOD1 is Alt, and there is a key named "Alt" > > on the keyboard. Therefore it must produce MOD1. There is nothing > > to argue here. > > > > There is no reason to not use that consistency across > > 3 platforms when we can get it for free. > > Really? Gtk+ is activating the camera in my Macbook and watching me push the > alt/option key? > > Your argument is absurd on its face, as I said in the discussion on bug > 607119. > > As for why using a Mac is relevant, the object of the exercise is to produce > programs which are as well-integrated as possible into the Mac user > experience. If mac users want to run programs that behave like X11, they run > them under X11 (which is provided by Apple as part of the OS, and which > initializes automatically when the machine receives an X11 connection > request). Users of Gtk programs with the quartz backend want their programs > to behave like native programs. Since you don't actually use a Mac, and > apparently haven't surveyed mac users, why do you think that you should be > able to dictate how they use their computers, or how the Quartz maintainers > configure Gtk to work on a Mac? > > By the way, the key you claim is named "Alt" is in fact named "option"; it > has a smaller label "alt" in the upper left corner of the key, just as the > "command" key has a quatrefoil symbol in the upper left corner (older > keyboards had an Apple logo on that key as well, and it was often referred to > as the "Apple" key). It is sometimes referred to as the "alt/option" key, and > while it's true that the enum name for it in Cocoa is "NSAlternateKey", > that's invisible to users. As I've also explained more than once in the long > running discussion on 607119, the primary function of the "option" key is to > extend the keyboard for i18n, a feature upon which many European users > depend, and which conflicts with using "option" as a naked accelerator (i.e., > without command or control as additional modifiers) in text context -- > meaning at all in practice. In other words, you're right that there's > nothing to argue, but you're wrong that "option" should be mapped to Mod1.
I don't talk about *behavior* here, that is entirely GTK's business. I'm talking about what modifiers we should map the apple keys to, that's completely unrelated, and only a business of GDK. Can I please have an opinion from some other people, preferably somebody who is willing to discuss, instead of just rubbing their superior knowledge in my face? --Mitch _______________________________________________ gtk-devel-list mailing list gtk-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-devel-list
