Derek, very interesting post, especially as you are teaching an age group which I very soarly want to get interested in using computers as it would ease distribution of audio files via the net very considerably and lesson the need for duplication and posting out stuff.
Time and again I come across people who've been using computers for years and still get lost trying to find where files are on their computers. Many times they've not grappled with the business of saving them with certainty in specific locations. This is where, in part, the script, who's name I cannot remember now, that automatically reads out a list of paths when you've typed some of the name or path to a file is so useful. I also wonder though whether a more simple sure fire way of navigating the find dialogue in Windows mighn't be a good idea too. Then again theirs file dir which if people could learn to use it might ease their Windows Explorer problems. Just a few fthoughts. Ray erik burggraaf wrote: > Heh Curtis, I have to teach the computer to many varied people. On > average though most are old, between 60 and 80 years old and many of > them have never seen a computer or have only seen one in a past > life. So, I'm not trying to force my preferences on any one. I > understand that people are different and that they learn things > differently and have different priorities. > > Regarding the book sense handling of it's files, I don't consider it > proprietary to put daisy files in the daisy folder, text and doc > files in the text or ebooks folder and so on. The system needs to > have some way of sorting and handling them,, and most players have > some structure like this for handling their various types. The IPod > now, that is completely proprietary because it stores it's various > files in a locked and proprietary database, meant to be accessed by > one specific piece of software, and if you don't use that software > well too bad. There may be some hacks out there to rip your IPod or > some such, but by and large you're locked in to ITunes. That is > proprietary. > > If I understand what files belong where, then I can place them > myself on the player with windows explorer if I use a windows > machine, or finder if I use a mac, which I do, or Presumably I could > use whatever browsing tool came with my distrobution of linux if I > wanted. That's non-proprietary. On the other hand, if the company > releases software to manage your book sense, and you must have > window-eyes in order to run the software, even if you don't strictly > need the software to manage your player, that is still proprietary > and users will avoid the book sense who might otherwise be throwing > out their victor stream to have one. But if the management software > only works with one screen reader it'd be a hard sell. > > I've tought it both ways. I can tell you that the people who have > trouble with the consept of files and folders in windows explorer > also generally have a bother with the consept of multi-page dialog > boxes and multitudenous onscreen buttons as in the case of stream > companion. The trick is to pick an approach and then spend as much > time and patience to get it done as needs be. It hasn't hurt my > ability to teach the stream having two approaches I can work with. > I just balk at the idea of one being proprietary, and to be honest I > don't see it happening. Whatever they develop will be stand alone. > Hell, maybe they will make it self-voicing, and that way power users > like me can get paid to come in and put jaws and window-eyes to > sleep while when the booksense manager is turned on, smiles. > > As for naming the software, how about the booksense buddy? How > about the book sense librarian? Or maybe? ... no, wait a minute... > How about the super ultra-high-speed one touch copienpastinator? > > Best, > erik burggraaf > A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. > Phone: 888-255-5194 > Email: [email protected] > > On 3-Jul-09, at 2:00 PM, Curtis Delzer wrote: > >> Well, complainers about programs is always going to happen, it is >> those who don't complain, that use the software every day without >> issue I am thinking about, particularly those who don't know how or >> why such files go in such and such a place because otherwise, the >> BS couldn't find it, or recognize it, etc. Proprietary scripts, >> you're probably right about that, I was thinking of a quick way to >> implement a solution for the end user right away who already runs >> window-eyes, but there are thousands who will run the BS with some >> other screen reading solution, but why not proprietary? Isn't the >> BS, after all, proprietary, and it's interface, since if you put >> *.m4A files in the books folder they won't be seen at all, or >> *.docs in the DAISY folder? It is an easy mistake and to avoid >> frustration, at least some of it, it may be a good idea to look at >> the potential since 32Gig cards will become the norm, with much >> huger ones right on the horizon. >> Remember, Erik, you are a very high end user, but most computer >> users are much more casual ones who don't get under the hood as >> much as a lot of us on this list do, and they want their solutions >> working right now, not after a prolonged study of menus, file >> structures as to what goes where, etc. etc. :) >> I sure don't mind doing such and such but hey, like many on this >> list, been doing it for quite a long time and for me, it is as easy >> as turning on my computer to figure out why *.ogg files go in the >> media folder, not books, or, is that correct? :) >> >> Take care! >> >> Curtis Delzer. >> HS >> >> >> At 12:38 PM 7/3/2009, Erik burggraaf wrote: >>> Hum. Well myself I've never found stream companion all that useful, >>> although I know some people like it. Wouldn't a window-eyes >>> script to >>> sort your mp3's and such freeze out jaws users a bit? Seems like >>> there might be a hue and cry about window-eyes going proprietary and >>> forcing people into gw products and the unfareness of it all and >>> so on. >>> >>> I'm wondering if it might be more stable going through a Stand alone >>> program anyway. Window-eyes scripts can be wonderful, powerful, >>> versatile, and so on, but they can also be unstable and cause >>> crashes >>> because they rely on a back end that frankly leaves a bit to be >>> desired in the stability department. I'm wondering if we wouldn't >>> get >>> some frustrated users complaining that their microsoft com >>> automation >>> server thingy is crashing when they truy to put things on their book >>> sense. >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> >>> erik burggraaf >>> A+ sertified technician and user support consultant. >>> Phone: 888-255-5194 >>> Email: [email protected] >>> >>> On 3-Jul-09, at 12:46 AM, Curtis Delzer wrote: >>> >>>> Hey guys. You all probably know that there is a program which runs >>>> on a computer to help the Victor stream folks get the files into >>>> the >>>> right places on the stream, why not write a script to run from >>>> within Window-Eyes to do similarly? >>>> Putting all the files in the right places on the Book Sense is >>>> going >>>> to be daunting for some, plus unzipping and copying folder(s) from >>>> within those *.zips as such into DAISY folders, NLS, book share, >>>> etc. plus podcasts, and / or other kinds of books and music, >>>> potentially an integration into Window-Eyes scripting could be done >>>> without too much effort since it may not be too hard a task for >>>> those bright scripters out there to tackle. >>>> In that way, a book sense companion script could be doing all and >>>> more than the human ware companion does now, since it can be >>>> daunting for a beginner to do all that is needed easily and not >>>> making a hash of it all. We wish to avoid discouraging those >>>> willing >>>> to do what is necessary, particularly to upload the books onto the >>>> Book Sense, book share or otherwise, and have them all in the right >>>> places without too many hoops to jump through. >>>> >>>> Curtis Delzer >>>> >>>> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >>>> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and >>>> your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >>>> your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive >>>> it. >>>> >>>> All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, >>>> and can be searched through and sorted using the search >>>> form at the bottom of the page. >>>> If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to >>>> [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the >>>> message. >> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message. If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. All GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo, and can be searched through and sorted using the search form at the bottom of the page. If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, send a message to [email protected] and include leave gw-info in the body of the message.
