Is not the real issue that what we knew and relied upon as MSAA has gone, and that the interface between Window-eyes and Windows is a broader and more complex matter than just the problems we are all having with web browsing.
Add also that there is a lot of legacy stuff which still needs to be supported. How far back that support should go must be a critical question when designing the specifications for a new Window-eyes. Something which is comparatively bug free for those of us who have Windows Seven may not be bug free for those of you who do not. And yes: I look forward to Window-eyes version 8 coming soon, but not so soon that the list becomes like the independent list of another screen reader where there are lots of comments about new bugs and problems not solved. Vaughan. -----Original Message----- From: David [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:57 PM To: Tyler Juranek; [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: WE and web pages My point was not to have anything pushed out the door. What I meant to stress, was the benefits of having an easier way for GW to keep up-to-date with an ever changing area of computer usage. I know they are trying their best to have a bug-free version of their software, and we all enjoy that fact about WE. But that just stress the benefits of having the browser mode a seperate part of wE, which would NAMELY let them get out new versions of the browser features more frequenly, and smoothly. So, just to make myself even more clear: I am N O T asking them to push out something that aren't ready, but the call for an update is urgent, and a seperate browser mode would have prevented some of the delays, that we are experiencing now. At least, we wouldn't have to wait for a new major release of the main software. The new browser features could have been released when they were ready, one by one, or in chunks. That would not disturb the fact of GW staff making sure of no bugs. They could have the same high standard for testing their browser mode still. But it would have made the stuff come out, independent of the main software and its releases. Did I make that point more clearly stand out now? Or, do you still feel I am trying to push something out of the door, that ain't ready? :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tyler Juranek" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 1:03 AM Subject: Re: WE and web pages > Hi! > I have repeated this again and again on this list, so I guess I will > say it again. > You know what Gw's pholosiphy is. > They are going to make sure it works, before they release it, so they > can make sure the bugs are out, and everything works. > What do you want more. A screen reader that is crappy, that has many > bugs, and freezes up on the internet? > Or, would you rather have a screen reader that hardly ever freezes up, > works good on websites, and gets the job done. > Ok, I think you understand my point. > Give them some time, and when the next version comes out, we'll all be > sayin, "Oh, I'm so glad I waited for that upgrade! It makes webpages > work great!" > So, if you want a nice screen reader, be patient! > Or, if you want a cruddy window-eyes that gw just throws out there, > just to make people happy, then I guess your patience will be lost. > So let's let gw make sure it works, and then we'll get something good, > I'm sure of that. > Tyler > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]>, "Tom" <[email protected]> > Date: Thursday, Dec 9, 2010 17:32:11 > Subject: Re: WE and web pages > >> >> >> I have stated this before, and am willing to repeat it: >> >> Long as WE keeps its browser mode hidden deep inside the core, we >> will end up in things like now. And, yes, it has been overdue for a >> long time, to have an upgrade to the browser mode. OK, I know, they >> tell it will be around in the next major version, and that there has >> been other stuff that has needed the attention. But, sorry, that is >> what will be the case yesterday, today and tomorrow. The day after >> tomorrow. The day after that one again. >> Well, always. GW proud themselves of being a 'rock solid' screen >> reader, and earlier this year one of their representants proud them >> of being first out with support for the new office, Vista and so >> forth. Yet, pretty soon, they will be last out with support for many >> a website. True, it is important for us to use our local system, >> meaning support for Office and the like. It is great, that you can go >> and buy a Win7 machine, and know that your screen reader will work on >> that one as well. But, honestly, how will you get that computer, when >> your screen reader does not support you on your bank's webpage - that >> you could pay the bill? And, the scenario the initial person wrote >> about, where things that are meant to be clickable, only shows up as >> text in WE (well, at the best), is happening to that many websites >> now, I really start to wonder if this is the 'standard' for today. >> >> At least one screen reader - the German Blindows - took the >> consequences of this, way back in the very early 2000's. What they >> did, was to keep the whole browse mode, seperate fromn their main >> screen reader. Well, for the user, in the daily life, this meant >> little or know difference. Whenever you open a website, the browser >> software kicked in, and tied up with the screen reader to the extent >> you wouldn't notice it. Still, the real benefit hereof, was that they >> could update the browser function, and did so, quite frequently; >> without having to bother waiting for the next version of the screen >> reader to come out - two, three or four years down the stream. Am I >> exergerating? Really? How long is it since, GW promised there would >> be an upgrade to the browser mode? Two years? Well, don't let me >> complain. I know, they have to make priorities; and there will always >> have to be something that is left behind. Yet, how much more easily >> would it have been, if they could have let out an update every so >> often, of the browser mode, to keep up with such an ever changing >> area. After all, how often is it, that a new version of Office or >> Windows is coming out? And yet, they do keep up with that kind of >> releases and changes. The browser mode has not really been updated >> for far more time than so. OK, we got some extra features when >> WE7 >> came out two years ago, but a real face lift of the browsermode, that >> would keep up with modernday websites? And, have a look at their >> scripts. >> Several >> times a year, GWToolkit is updated - just to mention one. Nice, yes, >> by all means! But why not have a similar way of being able to quickly >> release and keep up-to-date their browser mode. After all, THAT is >> where - by far - the biggest, and most frequent changes in the >> computer world is going on. >> >> To burry the browser mode so deep inside the software code, that you >> have to wait for years to have it updated, whilst you are releasing >> scripts for all kinds of gadgets several times a year... Well, to me, >> that seems like the people who like to stuff themselves with ice >> cream, and then - when the container is empty - decide it is time to >> have dinner. :were >> >> So, GW, once again: >> Make that browser mode a seperate feature - be a seperate software, >> or be it a script - and let it be a thing of frequent updating. That >> way, you programming guys, will also more easily be able to focus >> right on the part of WE, that needs the most attention. >> >> Personally, I have found several things, that I used to do on the >> net, which now is close to useless, due to the fact of WE not >> speaking the webpages correctly. Oh, yes, they tell us we can use the >> mouse. Hmm, funny! :were Try sit on a webpage, looking for your new >> hard drive, and click on 100 different words, with your mouse; hoping >> that at least ONE of them will be the word that was meant to be a >> link, button or whatever, but which WE only reads as text. Guess who >> does decide to go to another store, hoping for their webpage to be >> more 'old fascioned' so that his 'rock solid' MODERN screen reader >> has the capability of reading out the links and buttons. >> :were >> Does rock solid mean, this was the way it was ten years ago, so this >> is the way we will keep it; till the day everyone else have passed by >> us? :were >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Tom" <[email protected]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 10:50 PM >> Subject: Re: WE and web pages >> >> >> >I agree with your comment. I think one of the problems is that web >> >designers don't have the knowledge to make sites accessible and >> >many of them have just barely enough knowledge to design a site. >> >The objective is to get the site up as quickly as possible no >> >matter how poorly it is designed. >> > >> > Tom >> > >> > At 03:10 PM 12/9/10 com0600, Don H wrote: >> >arAs web sites update their web sites it would seem that WE is >> >arcoming more and more unable to work with them. Links do >> >arnothing, buttons don't work and info on the screen that can arbe >> >read by sight can't be read with WE. This holds true for arIE 8 and >> >Firefox. >> > >> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and >> > your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending >> > your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive >> > it. >> > >> > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You >> > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >> > >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original >> sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your >> message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your >> message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You >> can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > Check out the Techy Tidbits Blog and podcast, a whole new technology ride! > at > http://techytidbitstyler.blogspot.com/ > Join the low trafic announce only techy tidbits email list by sending > a blank message to > [email protected] > Also be sure to join the discussion list by sending a blank message to > [email protected] > Listen to the Techy Tidbit reviews on Main Menu on A C B radio at > http://mainmenu.acbradio.org Call the Techy Tidbits comment line and > leave us your feedback at 206-337-4505! > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original > sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your > message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your > message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You > can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. Please consider the environment before printing this email and its attachments. Avoid printing, or print double-sided if you can. ------------------------------- This email and any attachments may contain information that is confidential and subject to legal privilege. If you are not the intended recipient, any use, dissemination, distribution or duplication of this email and attachments is prohibited. If you have received this email in error please notify the author immediately and erase all copies of the email and attachments. The Ministry of Social Development accepts no responsibility for changes made to this message or attachments after transmission from the Ministry. ------------------------------- If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
