David,
I appreciate you taking the time to write all that out, but I'm afraid
I'm still missing the point you were trying to make. Let me respond with
a couple of concise points, and we'll go from there. App Central will
automatically load the strings for the language of browse you're using.
The Change Language link (which is easily accessible with the
Window-Eyes page navigation dialog) offers the ability to change to
another language. Localizations are up to the people who do the
translating. If you find errors in translations, feel free to write them
up for me, and I'll pass them along to the responsible party. If you're
offering to translate App Central into one of the above mentioned
languages, that's great. Contact me privately, and I'll send you the
strings.
Thanks,
Aaron
On 5/9/2011 12:23 PM, David wrote:
OK, Aaron!
Maybe you are not totally missing. Maybe we wer missing a bit. But still!
Allright, I just had a look at App Central. Poof! Sorry, but, poof!
Yes, you have the Change Language link. But where is it located? At
top of the page, there is a link that lets the user Skip To The Main
Content. Then comes a few introductory links. Are any of these the one
we are looking for? Sorry, no!
Skipping to the main contents, leads us to a list of the newest apps,
the highest rated, or most recently updated apps. Will the link we are
searching be found in this section? My appologize, but, NO!
Then comes the bottom section, where you have all your contact and
advertising stuff. A section, that most users do not bother to read.
And, is the link in here? WOW; Yes! Deeply burried in the section
where the user is not likely to even look. Is that an example of good
wweb design? Sorry, to ask, but a link that would prove beneficial for
several users, and would have a major impact on the web page,
shouldn't that be expected at a much higher level? How many users - if
you were to do a research among the thousands - do you expect ever
would be aware that such a link did exist? None of the people I have
talked to, at least. Either get that link in the top section; like
most other web designers that offer multilingual sites. Or, at least
have it at the beginning of the Main section, that you quickly can
skip to. Try to think. The user opens App Central. He is given the
information, that there is so many headers, so many links. Then, if
his settings are as standard, WE starts to read the first 24 lines. At
the very top, it says there is a link to skip to the main contents of
the site. Now, what is the user likely to do? At least, I would either
hit that skip link, or press the H key, so as to jump right down to
the headers of the page. That is the way I do on a ton of other pages,
and that is what I guess most people do. Now, when I get to the main
section of App Central, I can make my searches. Likely, noone ever
will be reading the whole page. And even if they did, they might
likely stop when they get to the footer section. Is it any wonder,
that the discussion ever came up? Noone has ever told, such a Change
Language link is around. So not even if the user wanted to, he would
know to search for it.
Secondly. I tried it out. Well, I don't speak Polish or Turkish, so
forget about them. But I do know how to read a bit of German. So I
pressed the Change Language link, and chose German. Hmm! Hmmm! -
Is that what you call a German site? Allright the middle section of
the site was in German. But, the introductory section and the footer,
was in English. Quite a stew to listen through, with the speech synth.
Might be fancy enough for two eyes, but definately not what is good
practice with assistive technology. If I go to places like Google, and
ask the webpage to change to Danish, it does not present me with a
stew of English, Danish, and whatever. It changes the WHOLE page, into
the target language.
Well, Aaron, and the rest of you. Let me take you out of that
English-speaking world, and show you what real life is like - for a
load of people, who just happened to be born on the other side of the
street.
Imagine, you were sitting in Germany. Your English skills are rather
limitted. Still, you are all the time hearing about the many great
features of apps. So, one day, you decide to take the plunge. You
enter the web address in your browser. Bang! There you are placed, on
top of a webpage, which runs over many screens. It is all in the
language, of which you are not very good at - English. In here, you
are supposed to look for a Change Language link. You don't know it
exists, and you won't find it until you have been scrolling through
more or less the whole webpage; listening to all that BlahBlah-stuff,
that you hardly understand, due to it being in a foreign language. Who
knows, how many would go through all that hazzle. But, you are of the
persistent sort, and you finally hit the link. With a breathe of
relief, you press the Enter key; hoping that your trials are passed.
And? What are you presented with? A new page, which from the beginning
point, is babling away on its English. You now, are supposed to know,
that you should just scroll down the page, because at some funny
point, you would eventually be hitting something that you finally do
understand.
Aaron, WHAT are you missing? Did you want me to send you a handful
links for pages that are all in Norwegian, Danish or Swedish; but who
might be offering things you might want to get your hands on. Wonder
how long you would have been enjoying playing around on such pages.
Well, unless you took on yourself, to really study the new language.
After all, how many of the users on this list, would visit - and stay
tuned with - a webpage in Chinese, that would happen to have ten
percent translated into English, somewhere deeply burried in the
structure?
If - as already mentioned - I go to other commercial webpages, that do
offer a version in another language, they offer it at top of the page
(or close thereto); and they offer it ALL translated. What's more,
they often do so automatically. That is, they might check to see where
your PC is located, based on the IP address, or they might have a
Remember my PC feature, that lets the user choose his language
preferences first time he visits the page, and thereafter always takes
him directly to the right translation.
What are you missing?
Again, lets now go down to a much lower level. The apps themsleves,
make use of XML files, that has totally seperate sections for each
language. That is, first the app is translated, the user will get his
native language all the time, fully automatically, and with no other
blahblah mixed in. Why not App Central? What are you missing?
Finally, App Central is run by GW. GW are the makers of Window-Eyes.
Window-Eyes, is delivered in a handful languages. The user is not even
offered a choice, as for his language, first the window-eyes has been
paid for and delivered. That is, if he bought a German version, all
his Window-Eyes hard-coded stuff (menus, error messages, manual and so
forth) will be in German. If he got the Norwegian version, well all
his stuff will be in Norwegian. There is no such thing as a
Multi-Lingual version of Window-Eyes itself. Lovely if there had been,
and other screen reader manufacturers are offering such a thing, but
there is no such version of Window-Eyes. Then, shouldn't the user have
his right, to expect that App Central, which is becoming one of the
biggest features of Window-Eyes, should be presented in the language
corresponding with his version of Window-Eyes? At least as the
default. Let him then, decide if he wants to switch to English,
because that is his preference. If GW managed to implement the
automatic language determination in the app building - in combination
with the XML files - and they come back presenting their app central
with the lack of this feature; and on top of that, they ask 'what am
I missing'... Well, I don't want to be harsh, but at the end of that
line, I am the one asking WHAT AM I MISSING; since app central cannot
be auto-lingual. And, at least, get that Change Language link far
closer to where the user would be likely to look for it. Then, come
back, and ask your question. :)
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Aaron Smith <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Monday, May 09, 2011 5:17 PM
*Subject:* App Central Localization (was Re: Package manager
update question)
I'm not sure where this discussion stemmed from, but App Central
is currently available in several languages: English, Polish,
Turkish, and German. There's even a prominent "Change Language"
link. Anyone is free to provide localizations in any other
language. In addition, every app details page provide the ability
to choose various languages, and localize strings in those
languages for app descriptions, and changes.
So what am I missing?
Aaron
On 5/9/2011 10:35 AM, David wrote:
Well, funny you Aaron brought up the question, if App Central is
lacking? And that is today? Why I say its funny, is because we
had a bit of a discussion last night, in Chip's scripting class.
One thing, that definately is lacking, is a multilingual website.
GW ask the app developers to make their apps as multilingual as
possible, but what good is that? After uploading the app to the
web, the user will have to read and understand a pretty good
chunk of English, so as to even find the app he might want to
install on his computer.
I know, that some - if not all - of your abroad, Non-English,
dealers do have their local websites. And they might be in the
local language. Yet, they don't hold any translated version of
app central. Then, they go ahead, and upload an app to the
official app central. Just have a look at app central as it
stands today, and you will find at least three apps up there,
with some rather strange sounding names. At least, when you let
Eloquence try to read Polish app-names, with the English voice.
And, there is more local scripts, that a local dealer might want
to maintain; or that could be developed so as to meet local needs
for a region. That is when the app might want to check for
updates other places than App central.
Back to the internationalization. That, at least, is an area,
where app central is greatly lacking. If you ask the app
developers to go through all the 'hazzle' of having their apps
translated; then why don't you take the lead? With the risk of
sounding critical, which was not my intention, I just summed up
what came out of the discussion last night. Would be great, to
hear what good reasons GW would have for their choice on leaving
app central little accessible for the users who are not strong in
English.
----- Original Message -----
*From:* Aaron Smith <mailto:[email protected]>
*To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>
*Sent:* Monday, May 09, 2011 3:19 PM
*Subject:* Re: Package manager update question
On 5/9/2011 8:49 AM, Jacob Schmude wrote:
It's not so much that App Central is lacking as it is some
certain organizations do not want any scripts (encrypted or
not) outside of their own locations.
In that case, an app would need to handle all of the updating
itself, as you indicated.
Aaron
--
Aaron Smith
Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist
GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825
260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.
--
Aaron Smith
Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist
GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825
260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.
--
Aaron Smith
Web Development * App Development * Product Support Specialist
GW Micro, Inc. * 725 Airport North Office Park, Fort Wayne, IN 46825
260-489-3671 * gwmicro.com
To insure that you receive proper support, please include all past
correspondence (where applicable), and any relevant information
pertinent to your situation when submitting a problem report to the GW
Micro Technical Support Team.
