On Tue, June 26, 2007 12:17 pm, Robin Netherton wrote: > "What do you call those sort of bloomers that men wore with hose in > the 16th c in France. They are rounded in outline, striped, come to > about mid thigh." > > Evidently he's looking for a French term, though if there's an > obvious English one I'll send him that as well.
I love an excuse to dig thru moldy old french dictionaries. Caution, some of these definitions are in older French and the meanings are not necessarily what you might be used to. Others have defiinitions given in Latin. While Thresor de la langue française (1606) is the oldest French-French dictionary, there is an earlier one that gives Latin definitions for French expressions. chausse (Page 118) Chausse, f. C'est l'habillement de la jambe d'un homme ou femme. -- from Thresor de la langue française (1606) Jean Nicot Chausse, ou Bas de chausse, Tibiale, huius tibialis. Haut de chausses, Femoralia et subligacula. Chausses entretenans, Femoralia cum subligaculis. -- from Thresor de la langue française (1606) Jean Nicot CHAUSSE. s. f. Partie du vestement qui couvre les cuisses, ou les jambes & les pieds. On appelle Haut de chausses ou haut de chausse, & simplement en pluriel chausses, ce qui sert à couvrir les cuisses. Et, Bas de chausses, & plus ordinairement Bas, Ce qui couvre les jambes. Un haut de chausses d'escarlatte. mettre, attacher, destacher ses chausses. mettre chausses bas. une chausse de drap. chausses de toile. il a le pourpoint & les chausses de mesme. chausses plissées. chausses à la matelote, à la Suisse. tirez-moy mes chausses. --Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 1st Edition (1694)
This could be a translation of "la panse" or pourpoint a panseron" which were derogatory terms for the clothes worn by the "feminine" gentlemen of the court of Henri lll - "les hommes effemines". (Although these seem to refer to the doublet, rather than the breeches or trunk hose.) (Ruppert again.)
Suzi
Neither of these expressions, panse or panseron, turn up in old dictionaries, Suzi. Where are they cited? There's the old saying "Apres la panse vient la danse" which means "after dinner (after the fat belly), the dancing begins". The English proverbial equivalent is all things in due time. If this does refer to a doublet, it would certainly seem to point to one for a man who has dined well! You'll see what I mean as you read on. POURPOINT. s. m. Partie d'un habit d'homme qui couvre le corps depuis le cou jusques vers la ceinture. Colet de pourpoint. manches de pourpoint. basque de pourpoint. pourpoint de satin. boutonner un pourpoint. aller en pourpoint. se mettre en pourpoint. pourpoint tailladé. -- Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 1st Edition (1694) Pourpointerie. s. f. L'art de faire des pourpoints. Il est vieux. --Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 1st Edition (1694) On a lark, I turn panse into a verb: Panser un malade, voyez Penser. --Nicot, Thresor de la langue française (1606) (Note there are no references between 1606 & 1762) PANSER quand il se dit d'un cheval, signifie aussi, L'étriller, le brosser, le nettoyer, & lui donner généralement tout ce qui lui est nécessaire. Ce Palefrenier emploie la plus grande partie de la matinée à panser ses chevaux. Un cheval bien pansé de la main. Un cheval bien étrillé est à demi pansé. --Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 4th Edition (1762) PANSER On dit figurément & populairement, qu'Un homme est bien pansé, pour dire, qu'Il a bien mangé & bien bu. --Dictionnaire de L'Académie française, 4th Edition (1762) Then amusingly, i looked up Mignon just in case there were catty comments... sadly not catty enough to suit me. Le grand Mignon du Roy, Pullus Iouis. B. ex Festo. -- from Thresor de la langue française (1606) Jean Nicot Mignonnement vestu, Laute vestitus, vel eleganter. -- from Thresor de la langue française (1606) Jean Nicot
I cannot find an exact translation of the above phrase, but the accompanying picture makes it clear that these are trunk hose, as they are generally called in England. Longer versions, to the knee, are called h-d-c- "a lodiers". (Sorry no accents - don't know how!)
Could this actually refer to britches that are quilted? or perhaps big as a bedspread? Lodier, substantif. m. acut. Est une espece de couverture de licts, qui est farcie de coton, layne ou bourre, entre deux layes de satin, taffetas, toile ou autre telle estoffe contrepoinctée en divers ouvrages és deux endroits, et trop plus tenve que matelas, Lodix, Duquel mot Latin il est tiré, Stragula punctis transfixa. --Nicot, Thresor de la langue française (1606) --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] _______________________________________________ h-costume mailing list [email protected] http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
