This is great! Thank you. I appreciate getting both the translation
and the original; it helps me learn the French historical-fashion
vocabulary. And finally a definition that is aware of both the men's
and the women's versions, and explains the fur and not-fur. I would
like the line drawings if they are not too much trouble.
Thank you also for the background on the Grimms' dictionary. This is
something I should have known, and now I do!
Thanks again,
Lauren
Lauren M. Walker
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Oct 10, 2008, at 7:05 PM, Saragrace Knauf wrote:
The dictionary just happens to be a BIG project the Grimm brothers
worked on. It is still the standard for German etymology. No
connection to the fairy tales.
I am not sure there is a connection between the line/lein
endings...I just thought there might be because someone said that
it "was brought back" (from Hungary) by the Germans.... Sometimes
you can actually find the connection between the languages because
of the similartity. Kind of like verdingale and farthingale.....
Here is what my buddy Katherine had to say from the German list:
(If you would like the line drawings from the dictionary, I am sure
Katherine would oblige)
"Not German, French!
Hongreline (s.f.) La hongreline fut une sorte de surtout porté au
début du
XVIIe siécle par-dessus le pourpoint. Elle était à peu près ajustée;
d'abord les manches, non cousues aux entournures, y étaient liées
par des
aiguillettes, puis elles firent corps avec le vêtement d'hiver,
bordé et
même doublé de fourrure. Les femmes portérent jusque sous Louis
XIV, des
hongrelines à manches et à basques, mais non fourrées."
[Hongreline (feminine) The hongreline was a sort of overdress worn
at the
beginning of the 17th century over the pourpoint. It was a little
tailored, mostly in the sleeves, which were not sewn into the
armholes,
and were tied in with aglets, added to the body of the garment for
winter
wear, bordered or even lined with fur. Women wore this into the
reign of
Louis XIV, with sleeves and skirts, but not furred.] (translation
mine)
From: Dictionnaire du costume et de ses accessoires, des armes et des
étoffes, des origines à nos jours. Achevé et réalisé sous la
direction de
André Dupuis. Préf. de G.G.-Toudouze.
Author: Leloir, Maurice, 1853-1940.
Publication: Paris, Gründ [1961, c1951]
The Dictionary has some line drawings that will help the person
with the
query. The garment is similar to:
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/BRGPOD/
259768~Constantijn-Huygens-Posters.jpg
The red garments here are also similar:
http://www.artsmia.org/mia/e_images/10/mia_10450e.jpg
SG, drop me a note off line if you want more details.
Katherine"
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