On Apr 27, 2009, at 11:50 AM, Colin Scroggins wrote:
> > @Chris J. Davis > > While plugins are somewhat tied to the version and must be updated > because capabilities change, there is no good reason why themes could > not work from version to version without modification (except if you > encourage themers to tie to core software libraries). This forces > themes to be version dependent, when they do not have to be. This isn't even remotely close to what I have ever advocated. > > Encouraging themers to tie to the Habari core libraries is short- > sighted and will ultimately lead to development compromises due to > fear of breaking legacy code references. Including a ~50kb jQuery file > or better yet, a CDN link in your theme to ensure version independence > is not stupid and is common practice in many CMS packages. > Providing a toolkit to our plugin and theme designers is not short sited. No one has ever advocated that there is only one JS library to use, or that you even have to use a library. We provide tools that we as a community have decided are best of breed and leave it up to the individual to make the decision wether or not they use them. And I was referring to forcing every theme developer/plugin developer to include a copy of jQuery is stupid and a waste. GIving our users the most up-to-date version of jQuery to pull from, and encouraging this, is a sane and forward thinking practice. Do all our users have to take our advice? Clearly not. I have updated the version of jQuery Habari uses locally more than once. I have also been more than a little grateful that Habari ships with jQuery. > I disagree with the goal of providing theming tools (not plugin, as > they are tied to core), as ultimately, you are making a lot of > assumptions for the theme designer. What if I want to use another > javascript library or CSS framework? It is best for Habari to remain > agnostic in these regards, allowing the theme designers to make these > decisions for themselves. As Owen said in his email response to you (I like to read ahead!) We are in no way making decisions for our users. We are saying "Hey, welcome to Habari we thought we would go ahead and give you access to a recent version of jQuery to use while building your themes and plugins. Have fun" This doesn't mean that said developer can't then say "Thanks, but I prefer to use version 1.2.x of jQuery", or "Dood, I don't rock the jQuery, I am a Moo guy all the way." > In the future, instead of simply writing off an idea as stupid, maybe > we should be actually discuss the merits (pros AND cons) of what is > being said. Help people understand where you are coming from. I understand your point here, but believe me I didn't just write off the idea of not providing tools to theme developers as stupid. I am a theme and plugin developer as well as one of the people that helped make the decision to create a toolkit to provide our users. I have been thinking about this for going on 3 years, and I still think that not providing a toolkit is stupid. I agree with you that forcing people to use the toolkit is even more stupider... est, but removing the toolkit and/or stop encouraging people to use it would be the wrong decision as well. Thanks for your passion on this. And your right, we need more frank in depth discussions about these things. > ------- > Colin > > On Apr 26, 6:07 pm, "Chris J. Davis" <[email protected]> wrote: >> Colin was advocating either having them include their own (which is >> stupid) or calling googles. I am not in favor of either method >> honestly but I was one of the proponents of having Habari provide >> plugin and theme developers an up-to-date environment that includes >> all the tools they need. > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/habari-dev -~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---
