This was exactly my point in the earlier exchanges about the role of the MDC and maintenance of the technical platform and infrastructure upon which VistA sits. The users are the health professional disciplines and they need to know how the technical infrastructure is maintained conformant to Common conventions. They then can convey the Conceptual Content in the form of "Requirements" that are part of the Life Cycel Principles in ways that acknowledge the roles of the engineering disciplines in the other processes of the Life Cycle. The MDC/MTA forums provided that mode of communication earlier; reactivation of a more current environment will help each enterprise how this all works. That will benefit the future VistA Community.

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Aylesworth Marc A Ctr AFRL/IFSE wrote:

Yes, that is my point it needs input from people on both ends of the
process!!! Both the people it is being made for and the people that are
making it must have the same vision or expectations or what is being created
will not work. The users make a wish list and the engineer keeps it
realistic.

Thanks

Marc Aylesworth

C3I Associates

AFRL/IFSE

Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team

525 Brooks Rd

Rome, NY 13441-4505

Tel:315.330.2422

Fax:315.330.7009

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg
Woodhouse
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:16 AM
To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] MUMPS and VistA ( more M read questions)

My experience has been that users generally do not have a very clear
idea of what they want. What they DO know is what doesn't work for them
in what they have now. The users will often have some (maybe even
mutually contradictory) ideas about what they do not, but when you sit
down with the users to look at this all systematically more issues will
arise, and they may even conclude that what they initially requested
isn't quite what they want, after all. Establishing functional
requirements is usually a process, requiring significant input from
both users and engineers.

--- Aylesworth Marc A Ctr AFRL/IFSE <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

You should not get programming specs from a customer but should get
general
functionality that is desired. The customer should say I want to have
remote
clients that can do the same thing as local clients, or that I can
enter all
the information for a patient from a remote station, then we the
programmers
turn those general statements into specifications that are realistic
in
terms of what they want in the time frame that it is desired. Usually
doing
this in small increments makes both the customer and the programmer
happy.

Thanks

Marc Aylesworth

C3I Associates

AFRL/IFSE

Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team

525 Brooks Rd

Rome, NY 13441-4505

Tel:315.330.2422

Fax:315.330.7009

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ruben
Safir
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:36 AM
To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] MUMPS and VistA ( more M read
questions)

On Wed, 2005-08-24 at 09:12, Aylesworth Marc A Ctr AFRL/IFSE wrote:
I believe that what he means is that we actually talk to someone
who is
going to use Vista, get the wish list then decide what is feasible
in the
given time and then do the work.

I understand that, and that is exactly what is not a good idea.


 I believe that we need user involvement to
ensure that we have something that actually does what is needed and
to
foster the feeling that users have a say in what a product does. A
well
thought out program is useless if it does not do what the user
wants.


Have you ever tried to get a programming spec from a customer.  They
have no idea what they want, no idea what they need and no idea what
can
be done (which is usually more than they ever imagined).

What they are, however, is completely confused and snowed over by
cheap
marketing jargon from vendors playing word games to skew the market
under the disguise of computer science and technological advances.

That's why it is absolutely critical for a design team to vet user
input.

Ruben

Thanks

Marc Aylesworth

C3I Associates

AFRL/IFSE

Joint Battlespace Infosphere Team

525 Brooks Rd

Rome, NY 13441-4505

Tel:315.330.2422

Fax:315.330.7009

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Ruben
Safir
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 2:24 PM
To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] MUMPS and VistA ( more M read
questions)

On Tue, 2005-08-23 at 09:55 -0700, A. Forrey wrote:
If the VistA Community is going to reach the rest of
the world it needs to tell them how it will deal with this
problem
and
then get on with it.

Free Software projects just adapt to needs as developers precieve
them,
which is frankly, a better idea than having development driven by
healthcare providers who are working under many misconceptions
about the
limitations and capabilities of software.

It is important to have a map.  It is important to have a group and
a
leader to vet out reasonable requests from the user community.
Ultimately, the satisfaction of healthcare providers based on the
performance of the WorldViSTA and Mumps products will be what
swings
things.  But letting the providers create the software map, that
might
not be the best idea.

Ruben



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===
Gregory Woodhouse  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"Design quality doesn't ensure success, but design failure can ensure
failure."

--Kent Beck








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