This has been an interesting thread to follow. Thanks, Jarom, for starting it ;)

Having said that, in reading here and in the various links contributors have 
referenced, I didn't necessarily see anything that described the 'issues' with 
supporting complex types in HDF5 in a first-class (e.g. built in to the 
library) sort of way. And, now, I am just really curious what those issues are 
and if/how they are different from any other primitive type HDF5 supports?

I mean, I get that complex numbers represent a 'pair' of scalar values (which 
in cartesian coords are typically represented as real/imaginary and in polor 
coords, magnitude/phase) and I get that HDF5's underlying primitive type model 
is for the most part like standard floating point and integer computer 
representations including such things as offset, base, bias, mantissa, 
exponent, etc., but is there anything substantially more comlicated about 
handling them as first class type in the library than, as Francesc described 
below? Are there Fortran variants or language extensions that have something 
other than that basic modality of a pair of either 32 bit or 64 bit floating 
point numbers? Are there any Fortrans that use magnitude/phase (e.g. polar 
coords) instead of real/imaginary (cartesian coords).

Question for Francesc...do you define *both* polar and cartesian forms for 
complex numbers and if so, do you define a conversion method to go between 
them? If not, would anything like that ever be useful if it existed?

Seems like someone could define a 'complex types' support library extension on 
github, perhaps refactored from Francesc' code that might have the ability to 
become the defacto HDF5 standard for complex data in HDF5 files.

Finally, what about quarternions ;}? I am not kidding, just curious. I think 
those might be relevant in astro-physical contexts wouldn't they?

Mark


"Hdf-forum on behalf of Nelson, Jarom" wrote:

Thanks for all the responses. Very helpful.

From: Hdf-forum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Filipe Maia
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 6:49 AM
To: HDF Users Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Hdf-forum] Complex numbers (1.10.x update?)

I think the main issue is the "almost exactly".
I'm also using h5py's convention, but having an HDF5 "officially endorsed" way 
of representing complex numbers would greatly help with compatibility across 
different user groups, instead of having *almost* compatible representations.
And I hope the endorsed way matches the h5py convention, but any convention is 
better than none.

Cheers,
Filipe

On 22 February 2017 at 15:34, Barbara Jones 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Jarom,

In case it might help, there are C and Fortran code examples in the User’s 
Guide that do almost exactly what Francesc mentioned.
See Section 6.5.2.2.1 in the “HDF5 Datatypes” chapter of the HDF5 User’s Guide. 
The link to section 6.5.2 is:

https://support.hdfgroup.org/HDF5/doc/UG/HDF5_Users_Guide-Responsive%20HTML5/index.html#t=HDF5_Users_Guide%2FDatatypes%2FHDF5_Datatypes.htm%23TOC_6_5_2_Definition_ofbc-14&rhtocid=6.3.0_2

Scroll down to  6.5.2.2.1, “Compound Datatypes”. Scroll down a little further 
and you will see “Code Example 6-9” for C and “Code Example 6-10” for Fortran.

-Barbara

From: Hdf-forum 
[mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>]
 On Behalf Of Francesc Altet
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:02 AM

To: HDF Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Hdf-forum] Complex numbers (1.10.x update?)


Hi Jarom,



For what is worth, in PyTables and h5py (and possibly in others libraries too) 
we used the convention of declaring the complex type by using a compound type 
as follows:



"""

The H5T_COMPOUND type class contains two members. Both members must have the 
H5T_FLOAT atomic datatype class. The name of the first member should be "r" and 
represents the real part. The name of the second member should be "i" and 
represents the imaginary part. The precision property of both of the H5T_FLOAT 
members must be either 32 significant bits (e.g. H5T_NATIVE_FLOAT) or 64 
significant bits (e.g. H5T_NATIVE_DOUBLE). They represent Complex32 and 
Complex64 types respectively.

"""



Perhaps you may want to use this convention until a more formal one is 
implemented.



Francesc Alted

________________________________
From: Hdf-forum 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
 on behalf of Nelson, Jarom <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2017 2:36:23 AM
To: HDF Users Discussion List
Subject: Re: [Hdf-forum] Complex numbers (1.10.x update?)

Can we get a FAQ entry on the topic?  Bonus points for an example user 
implementation.

Thanks for your answer and for a great library!

Jarom

From: Hdf-forum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Barbara Jones
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2017 1:24 PM
To: HDF Users Discussion List 
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Subject: Re: [Hdf-forum] Complex numbers (1.10.x update?)

Hi Jarom,

We did originally plan to add support for complex types in HDF5-1.10.  However, 
after the issue was examined closely, we decided to wait until we had a 
well-defined scope of
what it means to add support for complex types within the library.

The issue is still open but not assigned to be fixed in a specific release.

-Barbara


From: Hdf-forum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of 
Nelson, Jarom
Sent: Thursday, February 09, 2017 10:32 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: [Hdf-forum] Complex numbers (1.10.x update?)

At what point (if any?) will HDF5 support a complex floating point datatype 
(i.e. pair of real and imaginary floating point numbers) “out-of-the-box”?

This is probably something that comes up frequently, but I haven’t found the 
current status of the question.

Searching the archives and the documentation, it seems that a complex floating 
point data type was at one point planned for the 1.10 release, however, I don’t 
see anything about continuation of that plan in the documentation.

Ref: these two threads from 2010
https://lists.hdfgroup.org/pipermail/hdf-forum_lists.hdfgroup.org/2010-December/004011.html
https://lists.hdfgroup.org/pipermail/hdf-forum_lists.hdfgroup.org/2010-April/003049.html

Perhaps the answer can be implied from this point in that thread:
To be fair, because there's no one-size-fits-all complex number
solution outside Fortran, a one-size-fits-all cross-language HDF5
helper method to define a complex type would be difficult to get
right.  Not technically difficult, just socially difficult.

- Rhys

Also, this seems like a likely topic for a FAQ. (There’s one there for boolean 
datatype)

Jarom Nelson, LLNL


_______________________________________________
Hdf-forum is for HDF software users discussion.
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
http://lists.hdfgroup.org/mailman/listinfo/hdf-forum_lists.hdfgroup.org
Twitter: https://twitter.com/hdf5

_______________________________________________
Hdf-forum is for HDF software users discussion.
[email protected]
http://lists.hdfgroup.org/mailman/listinfo/hdf-forum_lists.hdfgroup.org
Twitter: https://twitter.com/hdf5

Reply via email to