Vinay, you are correct, but I had a different point I wasn't clear about. Let's use data, from the ASTM E84 test method.
Thermax HD Flame spread 20 Smoke 80 Thermax Flame spread 25 Smoke <450 Tuff-R Flame spread 75 Smoke 450 Mineral and Fiber board Flame spread 0 Smoke 5 Your statements imply that Thermax HD is, to use my phrase, bomb proof. It is not. For max fire resistance we would need concrete or steel. I use Thermax non-HD, so I cannot claim I have a fire-resistant structure, although I could use the fig leaf that it is better than Tuff-R. The point is, nothing is totally fire resistant for the application: temporary structures that are easily transported. THERE IS FIRE RISK ON THE PLAYA. I choose to take that risk with my eyes open. I also have a fire extinguisher and a transceiver tuned to the MURS 911 frequency used at BM. Bill > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Re: Hexayurt/Pentayurt Hexacomb metal truss etc > From: Vinay <[email protected]> > Date: Wed, February 10, 2010 12:55 am > To: [email protected] > > > Bill, last time I checked, Thermax HD had a proper fire rating for > exposed use - i.e. Thermax HD naked to the air - while Tuff-R etc are > only rated for use behind sheetrock. > > It really does make a substantial difference to flame spread etc. The > fire test standards for building materials are rigorous, and we ignore > them at our peril. > > Vinay > > On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 2:46 AM, Bill Wiltschko <[email protected]> wrote: > > I hate to disagree with the founder, but Thermax HD is not significantly > > more fire-resistant than other foam panels. I researched the subject > > before I bought my Thermax (non-HD) panels. The problem is, if the foil > > is breached anywhere (edges, windows, rips and tears, holes for wires, > > air, etc) the foam is vulnerable. And the foil WILL be breached. > > Second, the foil isn't impregnable, as I learned when I used a heat gun > > to remove the tape. If I remember correctly (please post corrections), > > Thermax HD's fire rating is 25, while some foam panels are higher. The > > standard is a wood panel at 100. Problem is, 25 isn't that good. > > > > Notice I said I bought the panels anyway. I've set my HY up at BM two > > years. First, the HD version of Thermax isn't available anywhere. Two, > > having worked in 911 dispatch for the last ten years, I haven't heard of > > a tent fire, although I wouldn't be surprised if we've had some. Three, > > Black Rock City has more fire people per capita than any city or town in > > the US, with two or more large tankers and two or more smaller trucks on > > duty 24/7. While it's true our HY's aren't bomb-proof, they're good > > enough for the application and situation. > > > > YMMV > > > > Bill > >> -------- Original Message -------- > >> Subject: Re: [hexayurt] Re: Hexayurt/Pentayurt Hexacomb metal truss etc > >> From: Vinay <[email protected]> > >> Date: Tue, February 09, 2010 12:42 pm > >> To: [email protected] > >> > >> > >> Two words: THERMAX HD. > >> > >> Fire rated. > >> > >> Tough as nails. > >> > >> Basically the common polyiso material, but with a coke-can thickness > >> of metal on both sides. > >> > >> Yes, I know Dow are not being helpful, but getting this material > >> moving - $20 a sheet or something - is absolutely the way to put > >> effort and energy if people want the best possible hexayurts this > >> Burning Man. > >> > >> Vinay > >> > >> On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 7:37 PM, Brian <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > On Feb 9, 1:54 pm, Chris Phoenix <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> Why are space blankets a no-no? > >> > > >> > Because they're made of mylar and mylar, being mainly a plastic, > >> > burns. > >> > The MSDS is here: > >> > http://msds.dupont.com/msds/pdfs/EN/PEN_09004a2f8002e2ed.pdf > >> > > >> > While not exactly "ka-blooey" kind of burns, it is made of polyester > >> > and will melt and sputter and make nasty gasses which you do not want > >> > to be breathing in. > >> > > >> >> > 7. What about pentayurts? Seems more stable, no? > >> > > >> > From my models, the roofs are significantly more stable, but may need > >> > to be secured to the ground in use if made from light materials. The > >> > roof of a Pentayurt *may* need additional support to bear heavier snow > >> > loads, but overall seems extremely solid. > >> > > >> > NB: This is all from a model 1/12 scale. I have not yet tried > >> > building one full sized. Yet. > >> > > >> >> > basically I suggest we take all the recent discussions on materials, > >> >> > supplies, designs, windows, air conditioners, guywires, etc, and work > >> >> > on an updated faq. > >> > > >> > Excellent idea. > >> > > >> > I'd also like to propose some additions to the FAQ/Hexayurt site on > >> > Appropedia: > >> > 1. A Consolidated "instruction sheet" in PDF format which puts all the > >> > info that is up there into a brief (1-3 pp) instruction sheet. > >> > 2. A label for completed Hexayurts similar to > >> > http://www.appropedia.org/File:HYPanel2pic.PNG > >> > but incorporating a "No Flames" sign. > >> > Basically, with 1 & 2, I'm thinking about a small, pictorial info > >> > packet which can be sent with building materials to show people how to > >> > build the structures they need and including a sign people can post on > >> > the entrance of their yurt. > >> > > >> > Just a thought. > >> > > >> > > >> > Brian > >> > > >> > -- > >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> > Groups "hexayurt" group. > >> > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> > [email protected]. > >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Vinay Gupta > >> Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest > >> > >> http://guptaoption.com/map - social project connection map > >> > >> http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering > >> http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision > >> > >> http://bit.ly/flucode - please follow the Flu Code > >> if you are in a flu-effected area. It protects us all. > >> > >> Gizmo Project VOIP : (USA) 775-743-1851 > >> Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt > >> Twitter: @hexayurt http://twitter.com/hexayurt > >> UK Cell : +44 (0) 795 425 3533 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 > >> > >> "If it doesn't fit, force it." > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > >> "hexayurt" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected]. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "hexayurt" group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > [email protected]. > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. > > > > > > > > -- > Vinay Gupta > Free Science and Engineering in the Global Public Interest > > http://guptaoption.com/map - social project connection map > > http://hexayurt.com - free/open next generation human sheltering > http://hexayurt.com/plan - the whole systems, big picture vision > > http://bit.ly/flucode - please follow the Flu Code > if you are in a flu-effected area. It protects us all. > > Gizmo Project VOIP : (USA) 775-743-1851 > Skype/Gizmo/Gtalk/AIM: hexayurt > Twitter: @hexayurt http://twitter.com/hexayurt > UK Cell : +44 (0) 795 425 3533 / USA VOIP (+1) 775-743-1851 > > "If it doesn't fit, force it." > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "hexayurt" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "hexayurt" group. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected]. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/hexayurt?hl=en.
