Hi, No bot today so here are the minutes, carefully copy/pasted manually.
Have a nice day, all! 15:06 < gsmet> so Emmanuel, I suppose you don't have any news on the Hibernate front? 15:06 < gsmet> #topic Progress Emmanuel 15:06 < emmanuel> No 15:06 < emmanuel> Though I asked on another mailing list the benefit of 15:07 < emmanuel> StackOverflow and removing the forum (or making read only) 15:07 < emmanuel> Spring went that way 15:07 < emmanuel> But that's not a high priority thread 15:07 < gsmet> OK 15:07 < gsmet> #topic Next 2 weeks Emmanuel 15:07 < gsmet> anything planned for the next 2 weeks? 15:09 < emmanuel> If anything, I think I will want to start looking at the cloud friendly ORM version 15:09 < emmanuel> around connection etc 15:09 < emmanuel> something I had started a few months ago 15:09 < emmanuel> but no guarantee 15:09 < gsmet> OK, nice 15:10 < sannegrinovero> speaking of that, I had some input from a potential contributor about using ORM in OS 15:10 < sannegrinovero> he promised he'll either blog about it or comment on your related blog post 15:10 < emmanuel> sweet 15:10 < emmanuel> do you keep track of promises? 15:10 < emmanuel> :) 15:10 < sannegrinovero> yes 15:11 < sannegrinovero> and he has good motivation as he's one of our candidates ;) 15:11 < alesj> sannegrinovero: still waiting on your email about JDK9 … for JavaSI … ;-) 15:12 < gsmet> emmanuel: anything to add? 15:12 < sannegrinovero> alesj, sorry I'm back since this morning :) pile of emails to process today! 15:12 < emmanuel> nope 15:12 < gsmet> #topic Progress Guillaume 15:12 < gsmet> We released a 6.0.2.Final of HV due to a nasty bug 15:13 < gsmet> they already updated GlassFish with this version 15:13 < gsmet> so the first 5 version of GF should contain this version 15:14 < gsmet> on the HV front, I'm mostly reviewing PR and spending a few half days on it per week 15:14 < gsmet> I started to work more on OGM 15:14 < gsmet> upgraded all the components 15:15 < gsmet> I had a hard time upgrading Neo4j as they changed quite a lot of things 15:15 < gsmet> also OGM now targets JDK 8 15:15 < gsmet> I also worked on the ORM 5.2 support 15:15 < gsmet> it's a long journey 15:15 < gsmet> I have something working except one JTA issue in Neo4j tests 15:16 < gsmet> I'll ask Davide if he has some idea when he's back 15:16 < gsmet> I pushed a few PRs to ORM 15:16 < gsmet> I have another one in the queue 15:16 < gsmet> and I'm working on trying to reduce significantly the amount of copied code in OgmSessionImpl 15:17 < gsmet> this is hard due to how we wrap the sessions and the architecture of ORM session 15:17 < gsmet> I think it's a subject we should discuss at the F2F meeting 15:18 < gsmet> anyway, I still want to try this last experiment and see if I can come up with something 15:18 < gsmet> if not, I'll push what I have so that we can discuss it 15:18 < gsmet> #topic Next 2 weeks Guillaume 15:18 -!- sfikes [~sfi...@c-76-107-225-165.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #hibernate-dev 15:18 < gsmet> so see above ^ 15:18 -!- smarlow [~smarlow@redhat/jboss/smarlow] has joined #hibernate-dev 15:19 < gsmet> and I have a few things I want to check on HV 15:19 < gsmet> (an old report of bad performance with Spring) 15:19 < gsmet> I think we should probably start to decide how to reorganize the team 15:19 < gsmet> depending on our priorities 15:19 < sannegrinovero> +1 15:20 < gsmet> especially if Sanne is going to work on Infinispan 9 support 15:20 < gsmet> ah, last thing 15:20 < gsmet> emmanuel: I did some work to go away from CLA 15:21 < gsmet> Gunnar wanted to check with you if it was also OK for HV? 15:21 < emmanuel> on principle yes 15:21 < gsmet> Steve discussed with the legal team and they were OK with having a mention in CONTRIBUTING.md 15:21 < emmanuel> plus HV is ASL so it has less constraint I think from legal 15:22 < emmanuel> but I don't know what approach you guys used and based on whose template 15:22 < gsmet> well, Steve had the discussion with legal 15:22 < gsmet> so I based my work on his 15:22 < emmanuel> his was based on LGPL 15:22 < emmanuel> you are different 15:22 < emmanuel> but if that's in my email queue, I'll have a look 15:22 < gsmet> see https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-validator/pull/836/files 15:23 < gsmet> well, the license is different 15:23 < gsmet> but I don't see how it makes a real difference 15:23 < gsmet> (obviously, I changed the license in the template) 15:24 < emmanuel> if it's well if we mandate a DCOa nd sign-off then, I'm not exactly pleased 15:24 < gsmet> no we don't mandate the sign off 15:24 < gsmet> legal decided against it 15:25 < sannegrinovero> the Search related change (also by gsmet, I merged already) : https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-search/commit/e86ca92805a19a2ca7898a12d9fad527e24aca05 15:25 < gsmet> they said CONTRIBUTING.md was enough 15:25 < emmanuel> well the DCO mentions the sign-off 15:25 < emmanuel> ah well it's mentioned tengentially 15:25 < emmanuel> let me ponder that I'll replay async 15:25 < gsmet> yeah not really 15:26 < gsmet> at least not in the one we committed 15:26 < gsmet> OK 15:26 < gsmet> the idea is: we don't care about CLA anymore and we don't require sign off 15:26 < gsmet> we just include the test in CONTRIBUTING.md 15:26 < gsmet> text* 15:26 < sannegrinovero> ok. BTW the "sign-off" is indeed mentioned in our copy but it doesn't sound like a requirement. 15:27 < gsmet> that's what they agreed with legal and I don't think the text of the DCO is an issue 15:27 < gsmet> anyway, just wanted to raise this 15:27 < gsmet> so that we can finally close this subject 15:27 < gsmet> that's all from me 15:27 < gsmet> #topic Progress Sanne 15:28 < sannegrinovero> emmanuel, while pondering about this, get steve's emails about it to hibernate-dev. 15:28 < sannegrinovero> ok on the Search side of things we've released 5.8 CR1 15:28 < sannegrinovero> and a bunch of maintenance releases to backport various things.. 15:28 < sannegrinovero> mostly driven by user request (yeah!) 15:28 < sannegrinovero> and WF11 / EAP needs 15:29 < sannegrinovero> I've had to work quite a bit in politics regarding EAP dependencies 15:29 < sannegrinovero> e.g. WF was overriding some versions which wasn't making us happy 15:29 < sannegrinovero> (not happy ~ doesn't work) 15:30 < sannegrinovero> also we've been collecting some perf metrics of the new ES integration design 15:30 < sannegrinovero> There's now a lot of data in various spredsheets so we can reason about the effect of various options 15:31 < sannegrinovero> we'll need to re-org the data and write down some considerations about it 15:31 < sannegrinovero> the good news is that our backend is rather "light" on resources now 15:32 < sannegrinovero> I'm in particular happy of the work yoann made in the bulking across threads 15:32 < sannegrinovero> and my better GSON integration consuming way less memory 15:32 < sannegrinovero> it's not looking too bad but there's room for improvement in how we send data to it.. 15:33 < sannegrinovero> but at least with the last figures we had I'm more comfortable about publishing this branch as final and move on. 15:33 < emmanuel> nice 15:33 < emmanuel> should we have a post -mortem describing what went wrong int he initial design 15:33 < emmanuel> not to make the same mistake again if we can? 15:33 < sannegrinovero> hum well .. "don't make it naive" ? :D 15:33 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: Btw, should we close (cancel) my latest PR on the performance topic? Or do you want to have a look later? 15:34 < emmanuel> ok so clearly yrodiere is naive. Got to work on that ;P 15:34 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, if it's the one on GSON encoding I think it can wait for post-release? If it's another one I haven't seen it yet :) 15:35 < yrodiere> emmanuel: Not to say I would have made it better (I wouldn't), but the naive implementation was not mine :) 15:35 < sannegrinovero> I'm open to still make some small improvements between CR1 and Final but I'd avoid the tricky ones 15:35 < emmanuel> yrodiere: ok 15:35 < emmanuel> To be fair, Gunnar made the v0 had cut corner to prove to the team that we could do it in less that 5 years 15:36 < emmanuel> so that's the price we paid 15:36 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, +1 ! Not pointing fingers. Just nobody had thought about the topic at all 15:36 < emmanuel> which is not too bad 15:36 < sannegrinovero> exactly 15:36 < yrodiere> Yes, you can't have it both ways :) 15:36 < sannegrinovero> tech debt is a useful tool when used wisely ;) 15:36 < emmanuel> LBO FTW 15:36 < emmanuel> oh wait 15:36 < sannegrinovero> LBO ? 15:37 < gsmet> hey men, don't be so chatty, I have to copy/paste the minutes manually today :) 15:37 < sannegrinovero> gsmet, maybe I need to write those techniques after all :) 15:37 < emmanuel> Leveraged Buy Out http://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/leveragedbuyout.asp 15:37 < jbossbot> Title: Leveraged Buyout (LBO) 15:37 < sannegrinovero> do bulking, rather than sending one line at a time gsmet :) 15:37 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: About the PRs, there are three of them, but https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-search/pull/1517 is the only one which is about more than just cosmetics 15:37 < emmanuel> buy a company but with massive amounts of debts 15:37 < jbossbot> git pull req [hibernate-search] (open) Yoann Rodière HSEARCH-2849 Improve the previously useless content-length hinting when computing Elasticsearch request hash https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-search/pull/1517 15:37 < jbossbot> jira [HSEARCH-2849] Improve or remove the currently useless content-length hinting when computing Elasticsearch request hash [Pull Request Sent (Unresolved) Task, Major, elasticsearch, Yoann Rodière] https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HSEARCH-2849 15:38 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, ok we'll see on /Search soon 15:38 < sannegrinovero> so what I'm investing my time on next is open for debate 15:38 < gsmet> #topic Next 2 weeks Sanne 15:38 < sannegrinovero> I'm assuming I'll still do some minor PR review on Search but focus the main attention on OGM, esp Infinispan integration 15:40 < sannegrinovero> I was also investigating some regression in the area ORM/CDI integrations on WF11 which was spotted by our Search QA tests, but as soon as I figure it out I'll probably move it to Scott's attention 15:40 < gsmet> sannegrinovero: why do you expect it to be so hard? 15:40 < gsmet> (the ISPN upgrade) 15:40 < gsmet> I would have expected it to be mostly a drop in replacement 15:40 < sannegrinovero> because I previously expected it to be a drop in replacement and tried :) 15:40 < gsmet> OK :) 15:41 < sannegrinovero> I'm not stating it's super -hard, but will need a couple of days 15:41 < gsmet> just wondering if it's such a good idea you're the only one understanding this thing 15:41 < sannegrinovero> secondarily, there are several improvements which we want 15:41 < sannegrinovero> which require ISPN9 so I'll simply keep rolling on those. 15:42 < gsmet> so wondering if it wouldn't be better for you to mentor another person from the team 15:42 < sannegrinovero> I think Davide understands it as well now he's been doing some maintenance on it 15:42 < gsmet> but it's really an open question 15:42 < gsmet> OK 15:42 < sannegrinovero> also there's this consultant from Rome who's excited about it and wants to help specifically with the OGM/HR integration 15:43 < sannegrinovero> I guess my goal should be to finish what we had begun so that it's less messy then involve more people 15:43 < gsmet> OK, that would be nice I think 15:43 < sannegrinovero> I could also work on Infinispan/Embedded and get us the benefits of galderz 's work on Serialization over object pools 15:44 < sannegrinovero> but that's beyond our scope so let's see 15:44 < sannegrinovero> (I mean the big plans we made in the spreadsheet) 15:44 < sannegrinovero> ok? 15:45 < sannegrinovero> I guess that's all for me, we can debate team organization at the end. 15:45 < gsmet> ok, thanks 15:45 < gsmet> #topic Progress Yoann 15:46 < yrodiere> So... It's been a while 15:46 < yrodiere> Last time I was in an IRC meeting was more than a month ago I think 15:47 < yrodiere> Since, as Sanne already mentioned, we finished working on performance improvements in Search, merged them, and released 5.8.0.CR1 15:47 < yrodiere> Also fixed a few bugs and released backports 15:48 < yrodiere> Lately I've helped alesj on his work to integrate Hibernate Search in Spring Boot 15:48 < yrodiere> And Adriel on his work to integrate Hibernate Search into Red Hat BRMS/KID 15:48 < yrodiere> But mostly I've been working on a POC for Hibernate Search 6 15:49 < yrodiere> What I managed to do for now: 15:49 < yrodiere> An engine that is both backend-agnostic (ES/Lucene/...) and mapper-agnostic (POJO/JSON/...) 15:50 < yrodiere> Obviously, bridges that are also agnostic 15:50 < yrodiere> Bridges 2.0 with user-defined annotations, à la Bean Validation 15:51 < sannegrinovero> reminds me a think I forgot: had a design meeting with Gustavo to discuss some details of the JSON support. he's made great progress so we need to keep being fast as well ;) 15:52 < yrodiere> For now I only implemented a POJO mapper and a stubbed Elasticsearch backend, and only indexing is supported. So the POC is able to take POJOs and transform them to Elasticsearch JSON, with @IndexedEmbedded and custom bridges, but nothing more. In particular, there's no support for search queries 15:52 < gsmet> yeah search queries are so 2000 15:53 < yrodiere> Yeah, well, you have to start somewhere :) 15:53 < gsmet> you started from scratch or you're changing the existing code? 15:53 < yrodiere> Ah, and I also managed to implement spatial bridges in a generic way. The particularity of those is that you need annotations on other properties than the one being bridged to "mark" the latitude and longitude properties 15:53 < yrodiere> from scratch 15:53 < sannegrinovero> great! Remember a "query" might seem trivial but the Projections on custom fields need probably Discuss development of Hibernate family of projects ( logged @ http://is.gd/0oe7PF ) to be included in the POC to make sure we nail the inverted bridge support for individual properties 15:54 < gsmet> yrodiere: about spatial, I was wondering if we shouldn't change that 15:54 < gsmet> but it would require a specific type 15:54 < yrodiere> The idea was to have a target, decide whether that's what we want or not, and only then think about how we will make HSearch change 15:55 < gsmet> yup, sounds nice 15:55 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: Yep, I have that in mind. There's a bit of complexity around that, especially because currently, projections are a mix between bean properties and document fields 15:55 < yrodiere> gsmet: Yeah, well... Too late :p 15:56 < emmanuel> yrodiere: so your work looks like http://www.supersimplestorageservice.com 15:56 < jbossbot> Title: S4 - Super Simple Storage Service 15:56 < yrodiere> emmanuel: Nah, the result is logged, so it's not write-only, strictly speaking :p 15:56 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, ok, exactly my concern. 15:57 < sannegrinovero> log4j-as-database :) 15:57 < yrodiere> The git repo is there, by the way: https://github.com/yrodiere/hibernate-search-6-poc 15:57 < gsmet> yrodiere: was thinking about storing polygons and so on 15:57 < yrodiere> Ah, the POC also introduces some kind of API which could fix HSEARCH-1800 15:57 < jbossbot> jira [HSEARCH-1800] Offer API to index and query third party datasources easily [Open (Unresolved) New Feature, Major, Emmanuel Bernard] https://hibernate.atlassian.net/browse/HSEARCH-1800 15:58 < gsmet> but let's discuss that the day we have a bot :) 15:58 < yrodiere> gsmet: Yep, I renamed @SpatialBridge to @GeoPointBridge, so that it can become an option later 15:58 < yrodiere> So 15:59 < yrodiere> Next few weeks, well, I'll continue to help alesj and Adriel, and of course work on the POC. 15:59 < sannegrinovero> this Leandro also opened some strong feature requests 15:59 < gsmet> is he from RH? 16:00 < sannegrinovero> unless they are disruptive I think we should try accomodating for them 16:00 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: Yes, I'm working on one (not very complex), and I think the other should be closed as invalid 16:00 < sannegrinovero> AFAIK no .. a user giving feedback. 16:00 < gsmet> he also opened an issue on HV about WF 11 16:00 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: As far as I can see, after my explanation he agrees with me 16:01 < gsmet> yrodiere: anything to add on the progress front? 16:01 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, not sure about which issue you're talking as he opened several, let's discuss that on hipchat later. 16:01 < yrodiere> Also, I may have a look at the JSR-352 support. The only remaining work is more or less about testing performance. I was thinking about merging it and publishing it in a 5.9. Do you think it's a good idea? 16:01 < yrodiere> And that's all 16:02 < emmanuel> gsmet: sannegrinovero I looked at the post-CLA world. All looks good to me. Good riddance! 16:02 < yrodiere> About the 5.9 with JSR-352 (Batch) support, WDYT? 16:02 < sannegrinovero> emmanuel, awesome! thank you both 16:03 < sannegrinovero> emmanuel, does that comment apply to the Apache projects too? 16:04 < sannegrinovero> yrodiere, yes I'm not against a 5.9 :) we have many goods coming which shouldn't be blocked by the main 6.0 task 16:04 < emmanuel> yes, it could be made simpler since ASL does imply a CLA but that would require a round of Richard and at least here we have stuff consistent 16:04 < gsmet> OK, cool 16:04 < gsmet> I'll merge the PRs then 16:05 < sannegrinovero> we'll need to update some minor projects too 16:05 < sannegrinovero> e.g. HCANN and jpql-parser, etc.. 16:06 < gsmet> mkay 16:06 < gsmet> I'll check it out 16:06 < sannegrinovero> gsmet, we can split the load: you're in charge but delegate one project each ;) 16:07 < gsmet> it's easier if I do it 16:07 < sannegrinovero> as you prefer 16:07 < gsmet> I'll do it for projects that are alive 16:07 < sannegrinovero> +1 16:08 < emmanuel> gsmet: I merged the HV one already 16:08 < gsmet> OK, so, do we discuss the team organization today with Davide missing? 16:08 < gsmet> emmanuel: OK, I also have a commit somewhere to update the website, will push that after the meeting 16:08 < gsmet> we are already past time 16:09 < emmanuel> gsmet: put on 6.0-next btw 16:09 < sannegrinovero> gsmet, I'm available but see no problem in postponing that if you all prefer. 16:10 < yrodiere> available too 16:10 < gsmet> I'm also available, just wondering if it's fair to not have Davide involved 16:10 < sannegrinovero> whatever we decide I think it's clear I need to resurrect that ISPN9 branch for OGM while monitoring Search progress so I doubt there's material change this week. 16:10 < gsmet> yes, my thought exactly 16:10 < gsmet> I think we all have one week of work ahead 16:11 < gsmet> so we can discuss it with Davide 16:11 < sannegrinovero> ok let's convene early next week for an ad-hoc meeting? 16:11 < gsmet> OK, I'll check your agendas and suggest a date 16:11 < sannegrinovero> cool thanks 16:11 < gsmet> emmanuel: do you want to be there? 16:12 < emmanuel> I don't knwo what you guys want to discuss 16:13 < gsmet> mostly who works on what 16:13 < sannegrinovero> ok let's keep emmanuel out of that. We have his priorities on file and can use that. 16:13 < sannegrinovero> gsmet, emmanuel yrodiere I'd also want to schedule a dedicated meeting about implications of doing the Search 6.0 API in clean room (e.g. API artifact, licensing and implications on other projects) 16:14 < emmanuel> ok, got it 16:14 < emmanuel> I can be there if you want 16:14 < emmanuel> from the look of it I won't be the main contributor :) 16:14 < sannegrinovero> emmanuel, we'll have great cofee and cookies :) 16:15 < yrodiere> sannegrinovero: sure, whenever you want 16:15 < gsmet> sannegrinovero: ok 16:15 < gsmet> I think I answered your email a long time ago :) 16:15 < sannegrinovero> gsmet, yes that's the reason.. you raised several points and my conclusion was a voice call would be eaiser ;) 16:16 < gsmet> OK :) 16:16 < gsmet> I let you organize this one 16:17 < sannegrinovero> sure. ok done here? Need to debug this WF11 deployment problem, would hate to open another last minute blocker ;) 16:17 < gsmet> yup, let's close the meeting 16:17 < gsmet> I'm off for the day copy/pasting the minutes ;) 16:17 < sannegrinovero> lol. Ok thanks all! ttyl 16:18 < yrodiere> Thanks all! _______________________________________________ hibernate-dev mailing list hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev