Matt, your first paragraph is exactly correct in my experience with directing a program. And yes, it did produce very unfortunate results in some cases. Almost to the point of negligence, I came to feel in some situations on the part of the school ( test score focus, seemingly little concern if they were actually knowledgable, prepared or safe for themselves and patients) . My pleas for understanding, actual and financial support, fell on "deaf ears"...against mounting budget and funding pressures I reasoned. But all the school focus seemed to be "outcomes" which for them= test scores tied to state money, and NOT actual proficiency or prepartion to work competently in all areas of histology (as it meant for me). It was really disheartening, and I also agree that what I saw were some definate "disconnects" as you have identified (Matt Lunetta's post). Joelle Weaver MAOM, BA, (HTL) ASCP
> Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:15:29 -0600 > From: mlune...@luhcares.org > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To stick > a Pin > > You might be surprised I too agree with Joyce and Richard. > > I understand very well that a new graduate will not be up to the skill > level of an individual that has been working for a while. What I am > surprised about is that this program seemed to teach to pass the test > and has left all of the technical skills left to be taught by the > persons 1st job. This could lead to several painful experiences for not > only the facility but the new HT. > > Were is the disconnect. If a person is doing the OJT route they need to > have at least one year of experience signed-off by a pathologist. If a > person goes through a program who is responsible for making sure that > the base-skills are there? Is there not some standards that a new > graduate should be able to cut/embed so many blocks in an hour? Is it > reasonable for a new graduate to take 1.5 hours to cut 5 (uterus, > appendix, tonsil) one-cuts? From facing to lifting the slide off the > water-bath? Or to take 2hrs to embed 15 (large tissue sections) one-cut > blocks? > > So Richard is also right how is a new grad to get experiance without > that 1st gig? But how much resposiblity should be placed on the 1st gig > to train a new HT that is supose to have base skills in lab equipment, > cutting, embeding, staining etal? > > More thoughts.... > ciao > Matt Lunetta BS HT(ASCP) > > > > > Edwards, Richard E." r...@leicester.ac.uk > > If you do not employ recently trained individuals, how on earth are they > going to obtain the experience that Matt craves, it's beyond me. My > daughter recently qualified as an Occupational Therapist, when she asked > for the reason that she was unsuccessful in obtaining a post, they said > that as a recently graduated student she had no experience, what > rubbish!!.Thankfully she has now obtained a position under more > enlightened management that is to be found here!. > > Cheers > > Richard Edwards > >>> "Shirley A. Powell" 08/30/11 6:32 PM >>> > I second that Joyce. > sp > > ________________________________________ > From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce > [jwe...@sjha.org] > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 6:17 PM > To: Matthew Lunetta; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To > stick a Pin > > I don't understand how a student of any program would have not a portion > of their program dedicated to these skills. We partner with Darton > College and their students to do a certain number of hours for their > "Clinicals". They know how to do those things, are trained by the > clinical coordinator for the program, and are graded on their work. > > Are they prepared to go into a lab and work like they've done OJT for > 1-2 years? Not at all, but they need to be hired with the understanding > that they will need time and patience to develop their speed and their > skill. > > My 2 cents... > > > Joyce Weems > Pathology Manager > Saint Joseph's Hospital > 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Rd NE > Atlanta, GA 30342 > 678-843-7376 - Phone > 678-843-7831 - Fax > > > -----Original Message----- > From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Matthew > Lunetta > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 13:59 > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Re:peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical - To > stick a Pin > > Hey all, > > I found Peggy's comments on why the practical was discontinued to be > very interesting. Of late I have had some experience with a new HT that > graduated from a program and passed the current HT exam. > So, as they say in Great Britain, to stick a pin in the ASCP reasons. > > This new fresh and shiny HT has all the book knowledge we needed them to > have. What they did not have was any technical skills. > 1) never used a microscope or centrifuge. > 2) no special staining experience > 3) no embedding experience > 4) no cutting experience > > When they cut or embed they are no were near the speed, accuracy or > quality that is nee > ded in our industry. While they can answer any > question you ask them they just do not have the technical skills one > would expect from a new graduate. > > I have learned several lessons from this experience. > > 1) I am so very glad I was one of the last HT's to have taken the > practical > 2) Any new HT's will be taking a practical if I am involved in the > selection process. > 3) I will question they quality of any new HT from this particular > program > > While I am sure that there are many new HT's that do have the skills > needed, this one experience has caused me to be more cautious. > > Respectfully, > > Matt Lunetta > BS, HT (ASCP) > > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:09:46 +0200 > From: "Gudrun Lang" > Subject: AW: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical > To: "'Bob Richmond'" > Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Message-ID: <8b7976b131854abc8db236fab5026...@dielangs.at> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Dear Dr. Richmond > Here in Austria we have a job open for a pathologist with 5 years > experience. ;) > Please, think it over to come. Lovely mountains, lovely techs... > > It sounds, like you are from that sort of pathologist techs dream of. > Gudrun > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] Im Auftrag von Bob > Richmond > Gesendet: Dienstag, 30. August 2011 04:43 > An: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Betreff: [Histonet] Re: peggy wenk comments on HT/HTL practical > > I really appreciate Peggy Wenk's analysis of the practical examination > and why it had to be dropped. I never really understood the issue > before. > > I must confess I always enjoyed helping the prospective examinee > obtain exactly the right tissue. > > "No, this endometrium is poorly preserved. We'll arrange with surgery > for a completely fresh specimen - I'll block it initially for the > diagnosis, then we'll fix it overnight and then block it exactly to > specifications. - Ick - this one's been curetted - we'll get another > one". > > "I'll block the margins of this colon resection specimen, then we'll > pin a portion of tissue onto paraffin and fix it flat overnight." > > "Next time I do an autopsy we'll get a lumbar spinal cord in the > intact dura. I'll open the dura dorsally and ventrally with iridectomy > scissors, then we'll hang it in neutral buffered formalin for two > days. Then I'll tie the dura and dependent nerves with a cotton > string. When you embed you'll remove the string, taking care that dura > and nerves remain in position. After that it's all yours. If it > doesn't work the first time, we've got three more levels in the jar." > > OK, I'm a geek, I'm 72 years old, I got a right. > > Bob Richmond > Samurai Pathologist > Knoxville TN > > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > _______________________________________________ > Histonet mailing list > Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet > Confidentiality Notice: > This e-mail, including any attachments is the > property of Catholic Health East and is intended > for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). > It may contain information that is privileged and > confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, > disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. 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