Ewwwwwww. Ew ew ewwwww! Thanks, - Saul.
On 21 June 2010 05:38, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> wrote: > Unless you pre bake your entire scene with static radiosity lighting. > > Then you only have to worry about dynamic scene elements. > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Michael Corsaro" <corsa...@gmail.com> > Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 2:12 PM > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > > > As a user on FP pointed out, it also culls backfacing points so all > > advanced > > shading is pointless, and shadows are impossible without re-rendering the > > entire scene. > > > > On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 11:56 PM, Bob Somers <magicbob...@gmail.com> > > wrote: > > > >> Same as Adam. The videos dumb it down too much. As far as I'm > >> concerned, it's vaporware until the SIGGRAPH paper. > >> > >> --Bob > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 2:38 AM, Adam Buckland <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com > > > >> wrote: > >> > I still take this "unlimited detail" company with a pinch of salt. > >> > I'll believe it when they publish a paper at SIGGRAPH and show a > >> > real-time working demo. > >> > > >> > On 20 June 2010 08:18, Adam "amckern" McKern <amck...@yahoo.com> > wrote: > >> >> Yeah Unity 3d > >> >> > >> >> But point mapping is still a rather good idea > >> >> > >> >> -------- > >> >> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com > >> >> > >> >> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> From: kostiak <kkapl...@gmail.com> > >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >> >> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 4:36 PM > >> >> > >> >> Maybe you mean http://unity3d.com/ > >> >> > >> >> On Sun, Jun 20, 2010 at 5:45 AM, Adam "amckern" McKern < > >> amck...@yahoo.com>wrote: > >> >> > >> >>> I have seen that type of engine used before with a mac demo engine - > >> >>> nothing new - it was called something like Infinity 3d - all i can > >> >>> find > >> on > >> >>> the web is some Russian flash game engine. > >> >>> > >> >>> -------- > >> >>> Owner Nigredo Studios http://www.nigredostudios.com > >> >>> > >> >>> --- On Sun, 20/6/10, Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> From: Christopher Harris <char...@resrchnet.com> > >> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >> >>> To: "'Discussion of Half-Life Programming'" < > >> >>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >> >>> Received: Sunday, 20 June, 2010, 12:33 PM > >> >>> > >> >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXJUGLiZkV0 > >> >>> http://unlimiteddetailtechnology.com/pictures.html > >> >>> > >> >>> There is also possibility to render point cloud data instead. This > >> company > >> >>> has an algorithm to select points to renders so that you have a 1 to > >> >>> 1 > >> >>> point > >> >>> to pixel ratio. > >> >>> > >> >>> Chris > >> >>> > >> >>> -----Original Message----- > >> >>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > >> >>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of > Justin > >> Krenz > >> >>> Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 4:49 PM > >> >>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > >> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >> >>> > >> >>> I believe he was referring to your claim about voxels being the > first > >> >>> thing used in 3d. Vector graphics (lines/edges) were the first > >> >>> things > >> >>> used in 3d with games like Battlezone and Star Wars at the arcades.. > >> >>> > >> >>> If you think voxels are so great, what did you think about Kevin > >> >>> Silverman's voxlap engine? http://voxelstein3d.sourceforge.net/ > >> >>> > >> >>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:23 PM, Joel R. <joelru...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >>> > Please enlighten me then, Marek. Voxels can be better the smaller > >> they > >> >>> are, > >> >>> > and in a few years will be better suited when we have more > powerful > >> >>> > computers. Many are still struggling to even play TF2 with their > >> current > >> >>> > machines. So yes, I'm retarded because I thought ahead of your > >> >>> > small > >> >>> mind. > >> >>> > > >> >>> > On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Adam Buckland > >> >>> <adamjbuckl...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> >>> > > >> >>> >> That's the plan. He's hoping to do something similar to id tech > >> >>> >> 5's > >> >>> >> megatexture technology for geometry. It's called sparse voxel > >> >>> >> octree > >> >>> >> technology > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Basically(from what I understand), the idea is to make the voxels > >> very > >> >>> >> very small to allow for high fidelity, but to only load the depth > >> >>> >> of > >> >>> >> the octree that could be seen at the current resolution, > therefore > >> >>> >> allowing for incredibly detailed models, that only stream the > >> >>> >> small > >> >>> >> details if they could be seen at the current resolution. This is > a > >> big > >> >>> >> step up from LOD where the programmer basically has to guess > where > >> to > >> >>> >> swap the models out (and they need to be separate models) > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> On 18 June 2010 18:42, Harry Jeffery < > >> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> > I believe John Carmack is hoping to use voxels in id Tech 6. > >> >>> >> > That > >> >>> >> > engine's only 10 years away so who knows, this could be the > >> >>> >> > future > >> but > >> >>> >> > we wont find out until we get there. > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > On 18 June 2010 17:26, Harry Pidcock <haz...@tpg.com.au> > wrote: > >> >>> >> >> Ray traced polygon rendering is quite an expensive task on a > >> >>> >> >> CPU. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> But real time point cloud rendering can be done on it quite > >> >>> >> >> well. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-ATtrImCx4 > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Yes its a bit cheesy, but that's because Bruce Dell doesn't > >> >>> >> >> have > >> a > >> >>> >> marketing > >> >>> >> >> budget. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> This video is rendered in real time on a single core CPU, > >> although it > >> >>> is > >> >>> >> >> only rendering at like 800x600, > >> >>> >> >> if the algorithm had some parallelism, maybe even have it > >> developed > >> >>> for > >> >>> >> >> GPUs/hardware specialization. Then it would certainly be > >> >>> >> >> able to render large amounts of detail at a higher resolution. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Although it doesn't have any advanced shading, it is still > >> >>> >> >> quite > >> >>> >> interesting > >> >>> >> >> to see such a complex static environment drawn with a single > >> >>> >> >> CPU > >> >>> thread. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> Of course there are huge computational and memory issues with > >> bone > >> >>> >> >> animation, shading, transparency etc. So don't think you will > >> >>> >> >> see > >> >>> this > >> >>> >> in > >> >>> >> >> the next 5 - 10years. > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> -------------------------------------------------- > >> >>> >> >> From: "Jonathan Murphy" <nuclearfri...@gmail.com> > >> >>> >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2010 12:31 AM > >> >>> >> >> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" < > >> >>> >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > >> >>> >> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Source Engine 2!!! > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> Katrina, you might be interested in reading up on Real Time > >> >>> >> >>> Raytracing, which is an alternative to rasterisation (GPU) > >> >>> >> >>> based > >> >>> >> >>> rendering and is/has been extensively researched and even > >> >>> implemented. > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_(graphics)<http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29> > < > >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia. > >> >>> org/wiki/Ray_tracing_%28graphics%29> > >> >>> >> >>> http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quake_Wars:_Ray_Traced > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> At the moment though it seems GPUs are going to stay very > >> >>> mainstream. > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> On Saturday, June 19, 2010, joshua simmons < > >> simmons...@gmail.com> > >> >>> >> wrote: > >> >>> >> >>>> Oh yeah I understand. There is only very rudmentry 3d > >> >>> >> >>>> support, > >> in > >> >>> no > >> >>> >> way > >> >>> >> >>>> capable of supporting any game. My point was more on the > >> radical > >> >>> rate > >> >>> >> at > >> >>> >> >>>> which they are evolving in comparison. Even the purely > >> >>> >> >>>> reverse > >> >>> >> engineered > >> >>> >> >>>> open source NVIDIA driver is out doing the proprietary one > in > >> terms > >> >>> of > >> >>> >> >>>> 2d. > >> >>> >> >>>> Now I of course realise there is a big jump from that to > >> capable > >> >>> 3d, > >> >>> >> but > >> >>> >> >>>> considering (iirc) amd have developers working on the open > >> source > >> >>> >> driver, > >> >>> >> >>>> I > >> >>> >> >>>> see it as mainly a matter of time before it becomes a viable > >> >>> >> alternative. > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> On 18 Jun 2010 22:01, "Bob Somers" <magicbob...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> Katrina, I'm not giving lectures on computer graphics here. > >> Google > >> >>> has > >> >>> >> >>>> all the information you asked for. If you'd like, I can also > >> >>> recommend > >> >>> >> >>>> some graphics textbooks which would clear things up. Also, > >> saying a > >> >>> >> >>>> Linux system running on a 100 MHz machine is comparable to > >> Windows > >> >>> >> >>>> running on a 2 GHz machine is a ridiculous overstatement. > >> >>> >> >>>> They > >> are > >> >>> not > >> >>> >> >>>> that radically different. If you're so convinced you can > make > >> the > >> >>> >> >>>> words best software renderer, by all means go do it. I'm > sure > >> at > >> >>> the > >> >>> >> >>>> very least you can wave your SIGGRAPH paper in our faces > when > >> >>> you're > >> >>> >> >>>> done. > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> Josh, I'm not sure you can call it better Linux support if > >> their 3D > >> >>> >> >>>> support is... well... really bad. They may have opened up > >> >>> >> >>>> their > >> >>> >> >>>> hardware spec so that the free drivers can get rolling (I > >> >>> >> >>>> have > >> >>> tried > >> >>> >> >>>> the new drivers in Fedora 13 and they are quite good so > far), > >> but > >> >>> the > >> >>> >> >>>> free drivers are at least a year behind their Windows > >> counterpart > >> >>> in > >> >>> >> >>>> terms of supporting the full features of the cards. There is > >> >>> virtually > >> >>> >> >>>> zero shader support in the free drivers at this point. > >> >>> >> >>>> nVidia's > >> >>> >> >>>> drivers, on the other hand, may be proprietary, but at least > >> you > >> >>> can > >> >>> >> >>>> get decent 3D performance out of the machine on a current > >> distro. > >> >>> The > >> >>> >> >>>> proprietary ATI driver has decent support and performance, > >> >>> >> >>>> but > >> it > >> >>> >> >>>> won't run on anything newer than Fedora 11. (Sorry if I keep > >> >>> >> >>>> referencing things in terms of Fedora versions, it's my > >> >>> >> >>>> distro > >> of > >> >>> >> >>>> choice.) > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> I'm all for free software, don't get me wrong. I would love > >> >>> >> >>>> for > >> >>> >> >>>> nothing more than to have free alternative drivers for ATI > >> >>> >> >>>> and > >> >>> nVidia > >> >>> >> >>>> cards, but if gaming is really going to be commercially > >> >>> >> >>>> viable > >> on > >> >>> the > >> >>> >> >>>> Linux desktop it's the performance that matters. No > publisher > >> is > >> >>> going > >> >>> >> >>>> to bother trying to ship a game for Linux where the poor > >> >>> >> >>>> driver > >> >>> >> >>>> support is going to cause them support headaches all day > >> >>> >> >>>> long. > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> --Bob > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> On Fri, Jun 18, 2010 at 4:38 AM, joshua simmons > >> >>> <simmons...@gmail.com > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>> >> >>>>> Actually to be h... > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the > list > >> >>> >> archives, > >> >>> >> >>>> please visit: > >> >>> >> >>>>> http://list... > >> >>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> >> >>>> please visit: > >> >>> >> >>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>>> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >>> >> >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> >>> >> >>> Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2945 - Release > >> >>> >> >>> Date: > >> >>> >> 06/18/10 > >> >>> >> >>> 04:35:00 > >> >>> >> >>> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> >> please visit: > >> >>> >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> >> > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >>> >> please visit: > >> >>> >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> -- > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> Bucky > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >>> >> please visit: > >> >>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > >> >>> > _______________________________________________ > >> >>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> > > >> >>> > > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>> archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> please visit: > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> please visit: > >> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> >> > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > > >> > Bucky > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> . > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 9.0.829 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2952 - Release Date: 06/21/10 > > 04:36:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > _______________________________________________ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
