I don't get what's up with all the VALVe hate. Many of the people here need to understand that VALVe cannot just open source their entire engine. There are massive legal hurdles they need to deal with. For example, the sound system relies on the Miles Sound Library which cannot be legally released. They'd have to essentially strip out all their proprietary libs. Then you have the problem of tools relying on internal code that could be used to help hackers (such as hidden interfaces, etc). It's not an easy task. While I'd love to see them open up their engine more, I understand why they haven't.
Hopefully they take Carmack's approach with Source 2 and try to integrate as little proprietary libraries as possible. -Deniz On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 7:20 PM, <hlcoders-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com>wrote: > Send hlcoders mailing list submissions to > hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hlcoders-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hlcoders-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of hlcoders digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Player voice volume (Psy_Commando) > 2. Re: Player voice volume (Nick) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 17:29:15 -0400 > From: Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player voice volume > Message-ID: > < > cabtrx2b0kn-4z9m6vwwkk7h2g2evmlzoow9q7v7vgk70kph...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Oh great.. I actually believed what Gabe said about "being hard at work" on > new updated mod tools.. <_< > > And they can't be serious.. I tried every single other freaking engines I > know of that are open to mods, and not all that archaic (Unreal, Unity, > Cryengine3, ). And the only one that had most of what I wanted, was > Source.. > No shitty proprietary script language you'll only ever use when working on > that engine, C++, an actual base with existing code to start from, tons of > examples, access to shaders, a fairly big community built around it, > capability for in-game cutscenes, the less locked features as possible, > reasonable physics, etc.. > The only thing I really didn't want was Hammer, and all the crap tools that > comes with it.. > > I was hoping that SFM with its very well done UI and very extensive > features would bring a wind of change in the way Valve makes tools for > their "content creator" community ! But what you're saying sounds as if > they said : > "Yeah, it wasn't really cool bro, no money and all. So we just decided to > ignore the people that trusted us and ragequit, screwing everything up for > them ! YOLO !" > > The worst part is that its way too late to change engine for my project > now.. And engine switch usually kills mods quicker than crappy sdk tools... > > > "This message isn't to troll the group it's a wake up call to all the > people that made the community great and the games better. Stop wasting > your time trying to use this valve garbage and keep re-fixing all the stuff > they break with every update. Start learning to code, and apply your know > how to something you can actually control." > > http://youtu.be/ztVMib1T4T4 > Wake up call ? Stop wasting your time ? Really ? If you were actually > trying to be helpful, well I don't think you're cut out for the job.. For > one, helpful people actually say constructive things.. People won't go : > "Oh, really ? I could never figure this out by myself, thanks ! And I can > totally restart everything from scratch on a brand new engine, while being > a small mod team with not budget or income, running on motivation alone !" > > And the fact that you added "Start learning to code.." just makes this > thing all the more insulting and ridiculous.. I've been studying for 8 > years in the field, and I coded even before that.. > I don't claim to be a veteran, but seriously, who the hell do you think > you're talking to, elementary school kids ? Batch files, and excel > programmers ? I'm sure most of the people here have at least a good > understanding of C++, given that, the SDK code IS in C++.. Just saying.. > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > I want enemy behavior to react to voice so client side only isn't enough. > > Thank you all for the help. > > Nick, I actually had a phone interview with valve in the last few months > > and asked directly about their poor support for source engine. The > response > > I got came down to they aren't interested in sinking a lot of resources > to > > compete with Unreal and Unity and the other major game engines. Clearly > > someone internally has done the math and the cost of of development and > > upkeep on the sdk must have worse returns compared with putting the dev > > time elsewhere. I didn't get the job, not enough experience, but it was a > > great conversation and I have the utmost respect for them. It just sucks > > for the modders that we aren't getting the support we want. > > > > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I blame valve a great deal for this. I understand Valve is basing the > >> entire hopes of the company on steam distribution/DRM. I still believe > >> valve should not be so quick to abandon the roots of what has always > made > >> it money, modding and the vast amount of games that will be made FOR > THEIR > >> ENGINE! > >> > >> Valve, open up source engine modding more, make hammer map editor open > >> source, allow source mods to run on linux. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Jed <j...@wunderboy.org> wrote: > >> > >>> Neico pretty much nailed what I was in the process of writing. > >>> > >>> At least back in the EP1 code base there was still code to handle the > >>> original HL1 method of moving the player model mouths based on the > >>> amplitude of the input audio. It basically moved a controller bone > alone a > >>> defined axis based on the volume making the jaw "flap". It's in the > code > >>> base for the HL1:Source port. > >>> > >>> I used it myself and got the mouths of HL2 player models to move based > >>> on the in-game voice volume so the code is still "valid". > >>> > >>> I'd start looking there at the code that controls the jaw and look at > >>> where to pull the amplitude out (a normalised value). > >>> > >>> // Jed > >>> > >>> > >>> On 8 May 2013 10:40, Neico <ad...@neic0.de> wrote: > >>> > >>>> You're only able to get which player is currently speaking by > >>>> pPlayer->IsSpeaking() was the function I believe, for the waveforms, > they > >>>> are hidden behind an internal engine interface which you can't access > under > >>>> normal ways (if one got trough that feel free to write it down here), > but > >>>> I've been mimicing it by using random (the following code is taken > from > >>>> Garry's Lua code for moving the player's mouth and turned into C++ > Code > >>>> with a working solution), also note that this is client side code (I > use it > >>>> in CHL2MPPlayerAnimState::Update in case you want to know): > >>>> > >>>> if( m_fVoiceTimeout >= gpGlobals->curtime ) return; > >>>> // If we had access to the volume or waveforms from the player one > >>>> could replace the following line to use that instead of a Random > Float, but > >>>> this is as close as it'll get > >>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( > pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() > >>>> ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && > >>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) m_fVoice = ( > >>>> random->RandomFloat( 0.1f, 1.0f ) / m_fVoice ); > >>>> > >>>> LocalFlexController_t iFlexNum = > >>>> pHL2MPPlayer->GetNumFlexControllers(); > >>>> if( --iFlexNum <= 0 ) return; > >>>> > >>>> for( LocalFlexController_t i = LocalFlexController_t( 0 ); i < > >>>> iFlexNum; i++ ) > >>>> { > >>>> const char* szName = pHL2MPPlayer->GetFlexControllerName( i ); > >>>> > >>>> if( !V_strcmp( szName, "jaw_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, > >>>> "right_part" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_part" ) || !V_strcmp( > szName, > >>>> "right_mouth_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_mouth_drop" ) ) > >>>> { > >>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( > >>>> pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && > >>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) > >>>> pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, clamp( m_fVoice * 2, 0, 2 ) ); > >>>> else pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, 0 ); > >>>> } > >>>> } > >>>> > >>>> m_fVoiceTimeout = gpGlobals->curtime + 0.2f; > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps you figure out how to do whatever you're trying to > >>>> archive > >>>> > >>>> On 08.05.2013 10:23, Garry Newman wrote: > >>>> > >>>> I don't think it's exposed to modders. I had to add engine code to get > >>>> it in G(arry's )Mod. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I was hoping someone might be able to help me out. I'd like access to > >>>>> info about the waveforms sent by people using in game voice. I'd > mainly > >>>>> like to know how loud they are speaking (or some similar average > value) and > >>>>> I'd like to be able to keep a list updated with which players are > speaking. > >>>>> My initial search through the code for this functionality didn't > turn up > >>>>> much. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Jesse > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > Jesse > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlcoders/attachments/20130509/8d071982/attachment-0001.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 17:18:00 -0500 > From: Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming > <hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] Player voice volume > Message-ID: > < > cabnmm1ok4toaq5kfkm_c0frghgcu0dby0d9lad159qhhpsh...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I agree with everyone here that the valve tools are a joke, from a decade > ago. Open Sourcing all the tools could double the productivity of modders > without ANY COST TO VALVE. ( and possibly double the lifespan of the > SourceEngine) > > As for the steam distribution future? In 10 years everyone is going to be > sad when none of the games work. Valve cannot compete against google, > microsoft, apple, sony, when it comes to content distribution. The only > hope valve has, is push the cards as hard as possible and HOPE for a > buyout. I bet on a microsoft buyout, that will make linux,mac gaming > harder. Microsoft will then fire all valve employees. > > To people who defend Valve, or attack the valve criticizers : You are only > doing yourself and Valve a disservice. > > > > > On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 4:29 PM, Psy_Commando <psycomma...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > Oh great.. I actually believed what Gabe said about "being hard at work" > > on new updated mod tools.. <_< > > > > And they can't be serious.. I tried every single other freaking engines I > > know of that are open to mods, and not all that archaic (Unreal, Unity, > > Cryengine3, ). And the only one that had most of what I wanted, was > > Source.. > > No shitty proprietary script language you'll only ever use when working > on > > that engine, C++, an actual base with existing code to start from, tons > of > > examples, access to shaders, a fairly big community built around it, > > capability for in-game cutscenes, the less locked features as possible, > > reasonable physics, etc.. > > The only thing I really didn't want was Hammer, and all the crap tools > > that comes with it.. > > > > I was hoping that SFM with its very well done UI and very extensive > > features would bring a wind of change in the way Valve makes tools for > > their "content creator" community ! But what you're saying sounds as if > > they said : > > "Yeah, it wasn't really cool bro, no money and all. So we just decided to > > ignore the people that trusted us and ragequit, screwing everything up > for > > them ! YOLO !" > > > > The worst part is that its way too late to change engine for my project > > now.. And engine switch usually kills mods quicker than crappy sdk > tools... > > > > > > > > "This message isn't to troll the group it's a wake up call to all the > > people that made the community great and the games better. Stop wasting > > your time trying to use this valve garbage and keep re-fixing all the > stuff > > they break with every update. Start learning to code, and apply your know > > how to something you can actually control." > > > > http://youtu.be/ztVMib1T4T4 > > Wake up call ? Stop wasting your time ? Really ? If you were actually > > trying to be helpful, well I don't think you're cut out for the job.. For > > one, helpful people actually say constructive things.. People won't go : > > "Oh, really ? I could never figure this out by myself, thanks ! And I can > > totally restart everything from scratch on a brand new engine, while > being > > a small mod team with not budget or income, running on motivation alone > !" > > > > And the fact that you added "Start learning to code.." just makes this > > thing all the more insulting and ridiculous.. I've been studying for 8 > > years in the field, and I coded even before that.. > > I don't claim to be a veteran, but seriously, who the hell do you think > > you're talking to, elementary school kids ? Batch files, and excel > > programmers ? I'm sure most of the people here have at least a good > > understanding of C++, given that, the SDK code IS in C++.. Just saying.. > > > > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 5:44 PM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I want enemy behavior to react to voice so client side only isn't > enough. > >> Thank you all for the help. > >> Nick, I actually had a phone interview with valve in the last few months > >> and asked directly about their poor support for source engine. The > response > >> I got came down to they aren't interested in sinking a lot of resources > to > >> compete with Unreal and Unity and the other major game engines. Clearly > >> someone internally has done the math and the cost of of development and > >> upkeep on the sdk must have worse returns compared with putting the dev > >> time elsewhere. I didn't get the job, not enough experience, but it was > a > >> great conversation and I have the utmost respect for them. It just sucks > >> for the modders that we aren't getting the support we want. > >> > >> > >> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 2:32 PM, Nick <xnicho...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I blame valve a great deal for this. I understand Valve is basing the > >>> entire hopes of the company on steam distribution/DRM. I still believe > >>> valve should not be so quick to abandon the roots of what has always > made > >>> it money, modding and the vast amount of games that will be made FOR > THEIR > >>> ENGINE! > >>> > >>> Valve, open up source engine modding more, make hammer map editor open > >>> source, allow source mods to run on linux. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:46 AM, Jed <j...@wunderboy.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Neico pretty much nailed what I was in the process of writing. > >>>> > >>>> At least back in the EP1 code base there was still code to handle the > >>>> original HL1 method of moving the player model mouths based on the > >>>> amplitude of the input audio. It basically moved a controller bone > alone a > >>>> defined axis based on the volume making the jaw "flap". It's in the > code > >>>> base for the HL1:Source port. > >>>> > >>>> I used it myself and got the mouths of HL2 player models to move based > >>>> on the in-game voice volume so the code is still "valid". > >>>> > >>>> I'd start looking there at the code that controls the jaw and look at > >>>> where to pull the amplitude out (a normalised value). > >>>> > >>>> // Jed > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 8 May 2013 10:40, Neico <ad...@neic0.de> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> You're only able to get which player is currently speaking by > >>>>> pPlayer->IsSpeaking() was the function I believe, for the waveforms, > they > >>>>> are hidden behind an internal engine interface which you can't > access under > >>>>> normal ways (if one got trough that feel free to write it down > here), but > >>>>> I've been mimicing it by using random (the following code is taken > from > >>>>> Garry's Lua code for moving the player's mouth and turned into C++ > Code > >>>>> with a working solution), also note that this is client side code (I > use it > >>>>> in CHL2MPPlayerAnimState::Update in case you want to know): > >>>>> > >>>>> if( m_fVoiceTimeout >= gpGlobals->curtime ) return; > >>>>> // If we had access to the volume or waveforms from the player > one > >>>>> could replace the following line to use that instead of a Random > Float, but > >>>>> this is as close as it'll get > >>>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( > >>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && > >>>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) m_fVoice = ( > >>>>> random->RandomFloat( 0.1f, 1.0f ) / m_fVoice ); > >>>>> > >>>>> LocalFlexController_t iFlexNum = > >>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->GetNumFlexControllers(); > >>>>> if( --iFlexNum <= 0 ) return; > >>>>> > >>>>> for( LocalFlexController_t i = LocalFlexController_t( 0 ); i < > >>>>> iFlexNum; i++ ) > >>>>> { > >>>>> const char* szName = pHL2MPPlayer->GetFlexControllerName( i > ); > >>>>> > >>>>> if( !V_strcmp( szName, "jaw_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, > >>>>> "right_part" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_part" ) || !V_strcmp( > szName, > >>>>> "right_mouth_drop" ) || !V_strcmp( szName, "left_mouth_drop" ) ) > >>>>> { > >>>>> if( GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsPlayerSpeaking( > >>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->entindex() ) || ( pHL2MPPlayer->IsLocalPlayer() && > >>>>> GetClientVoiceMgr()->IsLocalPlayerSpeaking() ) ) > >>>>> pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, clamp( m_fVoice * 2, 0, 2 ) ); > >>>>> else pHL2MPPlayer->SetFlexWeight( i, 0 ); > >>>>> } > >>>>> } > >>>>> > >>>>> m_fVoiceTimeout = gpGlobals->curtime + 0.2f; > >>>>> > >>>>> I hope this helps you figure out how to do whatever you're trying to > >>>>> archive > >>>>> > >>>>> On 08.05.2013 10:23, Garry Newman wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I don't think it's exposed to modders. I had to add engine code to > get > >>>>> it in G(arry's )Mod. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 3:52 AM, Jesse F <jesf...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I was hoping someone might be able to help me out. I'd like access > to > >>>>>> info about the waveforms sent by people using in game voice. I'd > mainly > >>>>>> like to know how loud they are speaking (or some similar average > value) and > >>>>>> I'd like to be able to keep a list updated with which players are > speaking. > >>>>>> My initial search through the code for this functionality didn't > turn up > >>>>>> much. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Jesse > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >>>>>> archives, please visit: > >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >>>>> please visit: > >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>>> please visit: > >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >>> please visit: > >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Jesse > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > >> > >> > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlcoders/attachments/20130509/e35ecb3a/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders > > > > End of hlcoders Digest, Vol 26, Issue 10 > **************************************** >
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