>I really appreciate the smartass reply, No problem. I aim to please. :)
> but not running a server at all does not equal a "quickplay server". Opting out of quickplay is also not a "quickplay server". I have explicitly stated that *quickplay servers* are forced to be more vanilla than ever. and (I presume) that you want to run a custom server with quickplay. So you are being "forced" to be vanilla. Am I incorrect? >If people can't find this experience without going out of their way to find it (remember that many don't even know they want this experience before they tried it), it's futile to even provide it. You talk like you need to do more then press a button to get the server list or that people can't just uncheck a box. Look, for the long term survival of the game, there is 3 options for this. 1. Default to Valve servers running vanilla games. 2. Default to Valve and custom servers running various types of games. 3. Default to Custom servers not running vanilla games. Now, bad servers exist in the custom realm. I think you can honestly agree that while there may be good custom servers, there are some bad ones. Yes? So 3 is out. Because as a new customer comes in, Valve wants to show people what the game was made for. 24 players, crits, damage spread, etc. If I started playing and quick played into a surf map where everyone had to be a demoman, I would close it and never play it again.. That possibility exists in option 2. A new user COULD get a bad experience which would remove future revenue from the game in trades, store purchases, etc. So all that is left is 1. Default Valve servers. Now, after they play a game or 2, they can ask themselves "Hey. What is that checkbox?". They uncheck it and begin exploring custom servers, but they already at this point have a good understanding what the game default is. I don't understand what you are proposing. Do you not see that defaulting quickplay to custom servers would be disastrous? On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:43 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> wrote: > > How are you forced? Does Valve require you to run a server? Do you have > to pay a fee to Valve if you don't get the quickplay people? > > I really appreciate the smartass reply, but not running a server at > all does not equal a "quickplay server". Opting out of quickplay is > also not a "quickplay server". I have explicitly stated that > *quickplay servers* are forced to be more vanilla than ever. > > > Back before quickplay, we used to build up communities. Have people > really lost the ability to do that anymore? > > Brilliant observation. Before Quickplay even existed you used to build > communities, when the situation was *completely* different. Quickplay > is now the most prominent option to play the game. New players are > explicitly encouraged to use quickplay to join servers. This system > now siphons almost all players to Valve servers. Do you really think > we would be complaining if the vast majority of players were still > opting to use the server browser? Many simply don't. A huge part of > the existing and new playerbase uses quickplay, that's a fact. How are > people supposed to build a community when a significant fraction of > the playerbase is not even available to find your server? > > I'm not complaining because of my own situation right now. While this > change has noticeably hit us, we managed to build a solid regular > playerbase before this change. But I'm not ignorant, and I see how > this will affect all of us in the long run. > > I know people love to go on about how "no one forces you to use > quickplay", "build your community" and whatnot. Yes, technically no > one is forced to use quickplay. But Valve has built it up to be a > necessity for many of us. No community building without traffic. > > > Fine then. They were losing players and losing players means they didn't > have people to pay to win. > > You are generalizing to a point where it physically hurts. I wasn't > around back then, but I can just see how people are eager to escape a > system that just hides their server from vitally important traffic. > There are custom experiences that players actually enjoy, that are far > from abusive and actually enhance the gameplay. If people can't find > this experience without going out of their way to find it (remember > that many don't even know they want this experience before they tried > it), it's futile to even provide it. That's the problem. > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Phillip Vector <t...@mostdeadlygame.com> > wrote: > > "Quickplay Servers are now forced to be more vanilla than ever before, > this > > additional punishment for the entire server hosting community is > completely > > unnecessary." > > > > How are you forced? Does Valve require you to run a server? Do you have > to > > pay a fee to Valve if you don't get the quickplay people? > > > > Back before quickplay, we used to build up communities. Have people > really > > lost the ability to do that anymore? > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Valentin G. <nextra...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> > >> > "Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is > sinificantly > >> > improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win > >> > modifications." > >> > >> No one is lamenting the fact that Valve tries to remove these abusive > >> practices from the Quickplay system, the issue is that Valve servers > >> are now the default. > >> Quickplay Servers are now forced to be more vanilla than ever before, > >> this additional punishment for the entire server hosting community is > >> completely unnecessary. > >> > >> > >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com > > > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > http://www.steamgraph.net/index.php?action=graph&jstime=1&appid=440&from=1388563200000&to=End+Time > >> > > >> > The change happened on January 23. I rest my case. > >> > > >> > "No its not." > >> > > >> > Gametracker stats clearly proves this. I didn't take a screenshot of > >> > Gametracker before this change but I am sure most people here who > >> > visited > >> > Gametracker can vouch for me. Where's your proof besides your own > >> > opinion? > >> > > >> > > >> > On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM, <davidaap1...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> "TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. > >> >> The > >> >> player experience was not improved by any significant amount from > this > >> >> change." > >> >> Player counts havent dropped any the player experience is > sinificantly > >> >> improved by not getting into servers full of ads and pay 2 win > >> >> modifications. > >> >> > >> >> "It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve > >> >> servers." > >> >> No its not. > >> >> > >> >> ------ Original Message ------ > >> >> From: "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> > >> >> To: "Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list" > >> >> <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > >> >> Sent: 26-2-2014 22:27:57 > >> >> Subject: Re: [hlds] Petitioning Valve TF2 Development > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> How are we responsible for communities like bets.tf using redirect > >> >> exploits? We do not have any influence over these people. Valve is > >> >> punishing > >> >> the majority of us who did nothing wrong. > >> >> > >> >> TF2 player count dropping is proof that this decision was a mistake. > >> >> The > >> >> player experience was not improved by any significant amount from > this > >> >> change. > >> >> > >> >> It was already proved the community experience is superior to Valve > >> >> servers. There wasn't an official server in the top 200 before this > >> >> change > >> >> and now look at gametracker. It is now dominated by official servers > >> >> because > >> >> they get all the new players. If there were 32 slot official servers > >> >> they > >> >> would also be in the top 20. > >> >> > >> >> http://www.gametracker.com/search/tf2/?query=srcds&searchipp=50. > >> >> > >> >> There was another situation like this long before quickplay where > >> >> community servers were put in a custom tab. Thankfully someone at > Valve > >> >> came > >> >> to their senses and removed it. I hope there is someone still working > >> >> on TF2 > >> >> with the good sense to remove official servers by default as well. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 9:52 AM, Silencio Delgato > >> >> <silenciodelg...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> > >> >>> I think there is more to the Quickplay issue than just whether or > not > >> >>> QP > >> >>> should default to Valve servers or not. QP itself has caused a lot > of > >> >>> issues > >> >>> and became the center of controversy ever since it came out in 2011. > >> >>> Though > >> >>> some of the changes that have been added recently are a step in the > >> >>> right > >> >>> direction, there are still many issues with this functionality that > >> >>> need to > >> >>> be addressed and improved upon. > >> >>> > >> >>> I'm all for wanting change to this functionality for the better to > >> >>> benefit everyone involved, but this petition (and please take no > >> >>> offense) > >> >>> seems a bit too short and vague to actually get the kind of change > >> >>> needed to > >> >>> make Quickplay a beneficial, reasonable, and extensible system for > >> >>> server > >> >>> ops and the community at large. It does not address many of the > issues > >> >>> that > >> >>> have ended up creating this current situation we are all in and does > >> >>> not > >> >>> have a list of concerns or changes or anything that could be > >> >>> specifically > >> >>> addressed, it only has a demand and presents a solution that is > based > >> >>> on an > >> >>> idea that we as server owners deserve players in our servers, which > is > >> >>> the > >> >>> wrong way to go about this. And lets not forget the players, we have > >> >>> to be > >> >>> fair to them as well, regardless of whether or not they will be > placed > >> >>> in > >> >>> our servers. We have to show that, as a community, we are worthy of > >> >>> their > >> >>> presence and a worthwhile experience to take the time to be a part > of, > >> >>> not > >> >>> the other way around. These days, we seem more like enemies to > players > >> >>> than > >> >>> friends/fellow players, given these recent/past developments > regarding > >> >>> the > >> >>> community servers. > >> >>> > >> >>> We also have to accept that, while Valve relied on us in the past to > >> >>> put > >> >>> up servers for this game, they have the ability to put up their own > >> >>> now. > >> >>> However, if they wanted to cut us out entirely, they would have done > >> >>> it back > >> >>> in 2011 when Quickplay became a thing. But they allowed us (and > still > >> >>> allow > >> >>> us) to use the functionality, giving us every opportunity to prove > >> >>> that we > >> >>> could use it responsibly and in the best interest of the player. > >> >>> Clearly, > >> >>> there were a few who could not do that and thus we were all > punished. > >> >>> While, > >> >>> in my opinion, Quickplay was not entirely thought all the way > through > >> >>> and I > >> >>> know I and many others have their own opinions about this subject, > it > >> >>> does > >> >>> not account for the fact that we as a community were unable, and > >> >>> perhaps > >> >>> unwilling, to police ourselves well enough to ensure we used this > >> >>> functionality responsibly to avoid Valve stepping in and taking the > >> >>> measures > >> >>> it has. Arguably, that isn't our job to police other > >> >>> communities/servers, it > >> >>> never has been, and its not Valve's job either. But someone had to > do > >> >>> this > >> >>> in order to put an end to the misuse, which is a sad thing indeed > >> >>> because it > >> >>> should not have come to that. > >> >>> > >> >>> We could go back and forth on who started what and why and all that > >> >>> all > >> >>> day, but bottom line, we are just as much at fault as Valve is for > >> >>> these > >> >>> recent developments that have hurt many community servers. However, > >> >>> what is > >> >>> done is done and we have to move forward now. It is time to stop > >> >>> playing the > >> >>> victim and start attempts in trying to get some meaningful, and > dare I > >> >>> say > >> >>> diplomatic, dialogue open between ourselves and Valve for meaningful > >> >>> change, > >> >>> not band-aid solutions and option switching that works in the short > >> >>> term. > >> >>> Community servers are important for this game, they always have been > >> >>> for > >> >>> good number of reasons and they should be treated that way. However, > >> >>> we > >> >>> cannot rely on that reasoning alone to get anything done. We have to > >> >>> prove > >> >>> that the community experience is worth having/supporting, now more > >> >>> than ever > >> >>> before. The burden is on us and we need to work for it again and > prove > >> >>> we > >> >>> are ready for the responsibility of owning a server that has players > >> >>> connecting to it utilizing functionality like Quickplay, but not > just > >> >>> to > >> >>> Valve, but to the players that play with us on our servers as well. > >> >>> Respect > >> >>> and trust are earned, not given freely, and I don't see anything we > >> >>> have > >> >>> done in recent years to earn that respect/trust from anyone. > >> >>> > >> >>> Sorry if this was too long/came off as offense or rude, I did not > mean > >> >>> it > >> >>> to be. I just felt I had to add my 2 cents. > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 4:34 AM, Anthony <anth...@kinevonetwork.com > > > >> >>> wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> Anyone who believes that petitioning for the default to be > community > >> >>>> servers is relying on quickplay traffic far too heavily or using it > >> >>>> to i.e > >> >>>> Play Ads. Remember with a good community you won't need quickplay > for > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> majority of my traffic they actually find the server themselves via > >> >>>> the > >> >>>> steam browser from the data I collected. A few even favorite it > >> >>>> afterwards > >> >>>> which with the new remember IP (Steam Account) they will always > know > >> >>>> where > >> >>>> it is. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> The point of community servers is to build a community, sure you > can > >> >>>> use > >> >>>> quickplay but it is a tool not a way of knowing members. A high > >> >>>> majority > >> >>>> will go to valve servers but in recent days I've seen others talk > >> >>>> about > >> >>>> 'going to prophunt or dodgeball. In their own Free will. The change > >> >>>> to QP > >> >>>> was only positive sure there should be some tweaks but that's for > >> >>>> another > >> >>>> topic. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On 26/02/2014 12:09, Robert Paulson wrote: > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a > >> >>>> > seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a > choice > >> >>>> > during > >> >>>> > the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then > >> >>>> > becomes the > >> >>>> > default after it has been selected a couple of times. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> I don't like this modification to my idea. The point of it was to > >> >>>> overcome the huge inertia to simply click play now. They need to be > >> >>>> automatically switched to community servers. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> It is supposed to be a compromise which guarantees players the > >> >>>> ability > >> >>>> to learn what plain tf2 is supposed to be without completely > screwing > >> >>>> over > >> >>>> communities like what's happening now. > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 2:30 AM, John Irwin <j...@thepodkast.com> > >> >>>> wrote: > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> >> It would be a more realistic solution to switch quickplay > >> >>>>> >> settings > >> >>>>> >> to community servers after 3-4 hours of playing time. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> This far from the worst suggestion I've seen. Perhaps aim for a > >> >>>>> seemless solution where by "community servers" wasn't even a > choice > >> >>>>> during > >> >>>>> the first few hours of gameplay, becomes a choice later, then > >> >>>>> becomes the > >> >>>>> default after it has been selected a couple of times. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> I'm not sure a petition is the right way to go though. > Particularly > >> >>>>> one > >> >>>>> that invites reddit to participate. Valve reads these email > strings. > >> >>>>> A good > >> >>>>> message makes itself heard. > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> John > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> On 26 Feb 2014 08:12, "Robert Paulson" <thepauls...@gmail.com> > >> >>>>> wrote: > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> It is not possible unless you did something like switching from > >> >>>>>> fast > >> >>>>>> to instant respawn. In that case we went from 10 to a whopping 30 > >> >>>>>> quickplay > >> >>>>>> connects per day which is hardly worth being pleased about. > >> >>>>>> Official servers > >> >>>>>> are still taking the vast majority of new players who are never > >> >>>>>> exposed to > >> >>>>>> community servers. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> For those of you who weren't on quickplay this is also bad news > for > >> >>>>>> you. Everyone relies on new players since old players quit all > the > >> >>>>>> time. > >> >>>>>> Fewer players become aware of community servers because it is too > >> >>>>>> easy to > >> >>>>>> just click play now. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> If you have a top server you will see more players for now, but > >> >>>>>> these > >> >>>>>> are mostly older players fleeing killed servers who will not be > >> >>>>>> playing > >> >>>>>> forever. The new equilibrium hasn't been reached yet and we will > >> >>>>>> see more > >> >>>>>> servers die as long as Valve continues this. Unfortunately this > >> >>>>>> will be a > >> >>>>>> slow decline with many server owners not realizing they are a few > >> >>>>>> months > >> >>>>>> away from dying as well. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> I am all for trying a petition but people will not associate with > >> >>>>>> someone who has such a bad reputation. The solution being > offered, > >> >>>>>> "provide > >> >>>>>> an option to choose either Valve only servers or Community > servers > >> >>>>>> on every > >> >>>>>> quickplay connect" would annoy everyone. It would be a more > >> >>>>>> realistic > >> >>>>>> solution to switch quickplay settings to community servers after > >> >>>>>> 3-4 hours > >> >>>>>> of playing time. > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 10:28 PM, Peter Jerde > >> >>>>>> <peter-h...@jerde.net> > >> >>>>>> wrote: > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> I don't know about you, but our quickplay traffic has more than > >> >>>>>>> TRIPLED since the changes. Seems to have been quite a positive > >> >>>>>>> change. > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> - Peter > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> > >> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>>>>>> archives, please visit: > >> >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>>>>> archives, > >> >>>>>> please visit: > >> >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>> > >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>>>> archives, > >> >>>>> please visit: > >> >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>>> archives, > >> >>>> please visit: > >> >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> > >> >>>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > >> >>>> archives, > >> >>>> please visit: > >> >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> _______________________________________________ > >> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> >>> please visit: > >> >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >>> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ > >> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, > >> >> please visit: > >> >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> > please visit: > >> > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > >> please visit: > >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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