Tf2s peak player count was never has never recovered since QP though, it did break 100,000 not long ago but only for the Halloween update, then dropped again On Jul 5, 2015 2:51 PM, <hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com> wrote:
> Send hlds mailing list submissions to > hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > hlds-requ...@list.valvesoftware.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > hlds-ow...@list.valvesoftware.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of hlds digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: hlds Digest, Vol 51, Issue 47 (ics) > 2. Re: Optional TF2 update released (E. Olsen) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 21:45:06 +0300 > From: ics <i...@ics-base.net> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 51, Issue 47 > Message-ID: <55997b32.1040...@ics-base.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed > > The "model" of running community based servers has changed since i > started nearly 10 years ago. Back then, there were no Valve servers in > any of their games. It was up for the communities to run a server, have > a good environment for players to play on, on a decent hardware with a > decent connection, without cheaters. This also led to more and more > people buying the game since their friends played the game also and > Valve earned more money by this act. > > Now Valve has overwatch, tightened VAC ban time when it kicks in sooner > and such, so non-administrated servers aren't that much of an issue nor > the cheaters who play on them and ruin others experience. There is also > more money involved in post marketing of the sold game - crates, skins, > item contributions, etc. None of this would be even possible if they > wouldn't had invested time and money to run their own servers. Post > marketing is what is most important, that alone brings in more money > these days than game sales. With TF2, it's even more apparent. This old > game, so many players, so much people spending money in different things. > > Valve has been running servers since release of Left 4 Dead and noticed > that it is more profitable for them to have a unified experience for > their playerbase, rather than get the players frustrated and driven away > by bad experiences. Let's face it, there's a lot of really crap servers > out there filled with 10, 20 or even more plugins with different garbage > that doesn't add into the game at all. > > It's really hard for any community based server to compete with any of > the servers they run in the eyes of regular Joe, who just starts up the > game when he has time and wants to play. If that average Joe and > thousands of his friends were having a bad experience in quickplay due > to advertisements, donation whining, garbage plugins, instant respawns > and other settings, it's understandable that Valve did something that > improved the situation. > > Let's be clear, there is less and less need for community servers these > days. Only thing we seem to be good for are offering different player > experience. There still will be those bad apples among us that will not > follow rules and Valve folks also noticed this. Instead of fighting > against a windmill, they put us in our own little pool to play on. We > never get out of it and have things like they used to be. > > 2 years have now passed since the change and the little change they did > (hide valve servers from browser) wasn't done out of their good graces > alone, but to prevent players from going to empty valve server and > earn/farm the contract faster. But a lot of people again had bad > experience and they thought having someone farming the contract is > lesser bad than someone not finding a Valve server to play on. > > We are just expendable assets. I've been wondering what to do since i'm > gotten a bit of tired of all this in 10 years and i'm not sure what i am > going to do after the summer is over. So far i've been throwing money at > the servers but i'm not quite sure if i should use it to something more > important instead. > > -ics > > Saint K. kirjoitti: > > > > We are a donation driven community that?s always been able to purchase > > their own hardware for colocation. > > > > Up until the time that advertisement in the MOTD and QP came around > > there was nothing seriously wrong. > > > > Properly ran community servers received donations and could sustain > > themselves. > > > > I for one never understood why the situation was handled like this. > > Allowing the advertisements and introducing QP has simply killed off a > > lot of community servers and the community building it involved. > > > > Maybe I am too much stuck in the past, hosting VALVe games since 1999, > > but this is just my view on things. > > > > Saint K. > > > > *From:*hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > > [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *E. Olsen > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 7:07 PM > > *To:* Just a random guy; Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] hlds Digest, Vol 51, Issue 47 > > > > Trying to run donation-driven servers is getting harder and harder > > every day, and unless you have a very large community(~400 > > concurrent players at all times or more) - you're simply not going > > to afford the hardware you need to run said servers.?_?/?/_ > > > > Perhaps if you try to throw up dozens of servers without a supporting > > community behind it, but if you grow your community "organically" > > (i.e. starting with a single server and expanding as your community > > grows), then the costs involved are minimal. A couple dozen > > like-minded folks are all it takes to get the first server off the > > ground. > > > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 12:40 PM, Just a random guy <andrey...@mail.ru > > <mailto:andrey...@mail.ru>> wrote: > > > > I'd like to step in and make a a point, even though none of you > > know me, nor have I participated in this discussion. > > My servers(currently six 32-slotters with all custom > > gamemodes/maps) run MOTDgd advertisements, and my entire > > playerbase is happy and contempt with them, except the three > > occasional non-regulars that come on once a week and */_bitch > > _/* about the ads. And it's not even the annoyance of the ads, > > their toasters simply cannot run anything past a staic page in the > > MOTD. > > My point is - your ads have to be unobtrusive(or, at least, not > > annoying) ??????and you still *_have_* to provide a high quality > > gameplay/experience to anyone that joins. > > Trying to run donation-driven servers is getting harder and harder > > every day, and unless you have a very large community(~400 > > concurrent players at all times or more) - you're simply not going > > to afford the hardware you need to run said servers.?_?/?/_ > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > > archives, please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2015 14:49:21 -0400 > From: "E. Olsen" <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > <hlds@list.valvesoftware.com> > Subject: Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released > Message-ID: > < > caku-1cesb7vj3d2sfwdckn_ma0apgs_zsy0mezu9fyt-vsn...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > > Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many of > > the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance > > issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for > Valve, a > > multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to > > make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? > > > The fact that valve did it sure as hell doesn't mean it was a good idea. > I'm sure they would be the first to admit they're not infallible, and have > made errors in judgement. > > Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players still have that > > delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done about it. > > > Of course there is. When there is a perception problem, you can take a > proactive stance to fix what is causing that perception problem. Like it > or not, servers running those ads have caused a perception problem. > > At any rate, this is the same argument that has gone in circles for two > years, and probably contributes to why Valve won't lift a finger to help > communities still passionate about the game. The people who want the right > to monetize a player connection with an ad impression will always scream at > the top of their lungs that they should be allowed to do anything they > want, and we've already seen Valve response to that. > > At any rate, I think the more prudent course is to continue to try to > change Valve's mind directly. If people think all the cynicism and insults > hurled Valve's way will change things, then by all means - keep in keeping > on. > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Saint K. <sai...@specialattack.net> wrote: > > > Amen. > > > > > > > > *From:* hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto: > > hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] *On Behalf Of *Matthias > > "InstantMuffin" Kollek > > *Sent:* Sunday, July 05, 2015 8:31 PM > > *To:* Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > > *Subject:* Re: [hlds] Optional TF2 update released > > > > > > > > I don't know if the last paragraph is meant sarcastically, but ads are a > > huge problem on community servers. Feel free to write a script that > > connects to all tf2 servers and keep the speakers on. > > > > Yes, motds can be turned off client-side. But please don't expect the > > average joe to be able to do anything else other than maybe setting his > > display resolution. > > > > In the good old days younger people would just gather a few friends, > > create a clan and throw together part of their allowance to rent a > > gameserver. Later on they would actually survive on donations. Hosting > was > > driven by passion. > > Nowadays every person that can barely even write and their mother wants > to > > run a server and pay nothing for it. And use ads and whatnot to earn > money > > from the servers. Sorry, it never worked that way. > > Solution is fairly simple. Have a strict report system to remove servers > > from the list. Yes, for gods sake, it won't remove every single shit > server > > there is, but it's a decent first step. Evaluate, and go from there. It's > > not like Valve wouldn't spit in server-ops' faces. The issue is they > don't > > pick the right ones. > > > > Luckily, I can't say much about the pinion-official-server debate, we > were > > quite unaffected in the EU. I must say however, the pinion people on spuf > > get a lot of respect from me. A lot of people shit on them for the right > > reasons, and they keep it together. I couldn't do that, god only knows. > > > > On 05.07.2015 19:59, Alexander Corn wrote: > > > > Are we just ignoring the fact that for a long time, Pinion hosted many of > > the CS:GO official matchmaking servers, which had terrible performance > > issues (like Valve servers now!) *and* ran MOTD ads? It's okay for > Valve, a > > multi-billion-dollar corporation to do it, but not average Joe trying to > > make some money back on what already isn't a negligible expense? > > > > But I digress. Ads really aren't a problem anymore in TF2 and if players > > still have that delusion, then there's really nothing that can be done > > about it. Best to just flip the switch back to all servers by default > (and > > reset Valve's quickplay scores, they're very artificially inflated now). > > > > > > > > On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:29 AM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Agreed. > > > > > > > > Donation-driven communities were how servers were operated for years (and > > how many still do). To suggest that there has been some kind of > fundamental > > shift in the game's demographic that would prevent that model from > working > > now is simply not true. > > > > > > > > In fact, those very same people who were willing to support a server > > community in the first years of TF2 existence now have even more > disposable > > income should they wish to do so. > > > > > > > > The difference between the two funding models is that as opposed to those > > MOTD ads, a server community that is supported through donations has to > > provide enough actual value to players that they CHOOSE to support that > > community/server. MOTD ads simply monetize anyone that connects, without > > providing any additional value (and in so many cases, because the system > is > > so open to abuse, the servers are/were barely suitable for running TF2 at > > all in terms of performance). > > > > > > > > There seems to be a misconception here, though. I'm certainly not saying > > that all servers/communities that run those ads are "bad". Far from it. > Nor > > am I saying that those who use them are somehow doing so in a malicious > or > > underhanded manner. > > > > > > > > However, I AM saying that when something that has been allowed to be used > > on community servers sullies the general reputation of those very servers > > so much that we actually have players that resist the slightest change > that > > would give community servers a little more exposure, then perhaps it is > > time to start the conversation about whether it is in the best interest > of > > community servers operators as a whole to continue to allow those ads to > > function. > > > > > > > > Frankly, if we have choose between restoring and rebuilding player > > confidence in the quality of community servers, or allowing those ads to > > run until there are no players left willing to set foot on a community > > server, the answer would seem to be an easy one. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > > > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/hlds/attachments/20150705/33bec2fe/attachment.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > End of hlds Digest, Vol 51, Issue 51 > ************************************ >
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