before this goes too far, I am going to chime in here, and everyone is welcome to ignore me if they so choose. Valkhorn wrote: It's not theory. You either hear the pitches or you do not. Hearing tests are pretty objective. You are given a range of frequencies for both ears and you either hear them or do you don't.
True. This is based on many medical studies on the physical reception mechanisms in the ear and how they vibrate. It is also true that this is seldom the case for the average human, however. However the degree to which we can differentiate frequency [="pitch"]changes alters as the frequency rises. Essentially the higher the frequency, the broader the pitch change has to be before we can recognize it. There is a parameter known as "threshold" which means the level of loudness that a given pitch must be at before we can "hear" it. In other words when a frequency range of hearing is done, a critical component of the test is the threshold at which it becomes perceptible to the subject For example, Valkhorn probably truly does have the ability to hear an 14 khz tone and recognize when it changes to 14.5khz. Herr Pizka may also have the same ability. The difference may be that Valkhorn can still hear everything at a lower loudness level than Hans, who may have to have the loudness several degrees louder to hear it. Or it may be the reverse. Thus simply saying that one can hear pitches in a certain range does not tell the whole tale - the real issue is how loud does it have to be before you can hear it? In medical circles the more prioritized concern seems to be studying how threshold loss is related to frequency loss, and how to prevent both. Threshold loss is the most common type of hearing loss and is the one that millions of people experience after too-loud concerts - that ever famous "ringing in the ears" phenomenon that disappears after a certain time. The current concern is to determine how much of that can occur before permanent damage is done. To summarize - the whole "I can hear pitches you can't" argument is baseless without knowing the loudness parameters at which you can do so. My apologies to those who felt this was too pedantic - I seem to be in a writing mood tonight. Paxmaha ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 6:43:31 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] A=5000 You're right, how foolish of me to base my opinions on facts... -William In a message dated 11/11/2010 12:56:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: It´s theory that humans are able to hear pitches up to 20.000 Hz, but very few do it. Just feeling it or just noticing it is not enough. I talked about distinguishing a certain pitch. That makes the difference. And, aren´t there surveys about hearing abilities in our societies ? Didn´t they come out telling us, that the hearing abilities not only of the elderly are fading out, but also of the younger & the very young generations as being exposed to the acoustical pollution or self imposed extreme noise high & sublow with high amplitudes ??? Please, William, do not start another war of words, as we do not disagree on the matter, but we view it from different standpoints only. You go for the mere facts, perhaps, while I go for the qualities of the hearing sense, perhaps. ################################################################### Am 11.11.2010 um 18:32 schrieb [email protected]: > It's not theory. You either hear the pitches or you do not. Hearing tests > are pretty objective. You are given a range of frequencies for both ears and > you either hear them or do you don't. > > I can not only hear pitches above 5,000 hz, but I can distinguish whether > or not I'm hearing them. > > -William > > > In a message dated 11/11/2010 11:13:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > [email protected] writes: > > In theory, just in theory. But you cannot hear nor distinguish a certain > pitch above 5.000 Hz. > > And a greater majority of all people in our westernized society has severe > hearing loss. > > But I admit, you might feel the extreme high pitches, - even painful in > your ear, or the extreme > low pitches in your stomache - can make you vomiting. > > ######################################################################## > Am 11.11.2010 um 17:53 schrieb [email protected]: > >> The human ear can usually hear from 20Hz to 20,000Hz. >> >> If you cannot hear above 5,000 Hz, then you probably have severe hearing > >> loss. >> >> _http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/_ >> (http://www.noiseaddicts.com/2009/03/can-you-hear-this-hearing-test/) >> >> I have only halfway decent speakers - so I probably can't output the > higher >> frequencies. I made it to 12kHz only. It must be all that time near > large >> computer equipment, or my speakers. >> >> -William >> >> >> In a message dated 11/11/2010 10:48:20 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> >> Hello Hans Illich, >> >> good calculation, >> but A-5000 corresponds to a 4-times smaller E-flat 0,44% sharp, >> if we take A=440 as the base. >> >> Based upon A=440: E-flat=311,13 >> the corresponding fraction of 5000 be 312,50 which is 0,44% sharp. >> This E-flat near 5000 Hz would be 22Hz sharp and be in the 5th octave > = >> E-flat´´´´´ >> thus exceeding most peoples hearing capabilities. >> >> Or explained musically: >> two octaves higher than the notated high E-flat, written with 3 ledger >> lines above staff >> in concert notation (=sound as written). It might be notated as trebble >> clef plus "octava 2" above >> or similar. >> >> It would also mean, that A-5000 does not exist, if we go after human >> naming of pitches. >> >> Mei liawa ! Oba bist guad im kalkulian. Liawe griass >> >> ############################################################### >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus >> .memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com >> _______________________________________________ >> post: [email protected] >> unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com > > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at > https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com > _______________________________________________ > post: [email protected] > unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/hpizka%40me.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/valkhorn%40aol.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com _______________________________________________ post: [email protected] unsubscribe or set options at https://pegasus.memphis.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
