In a message dated 10/20/2004 3:19:35 PM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Bill, You have made a very informative post. One open question, however, is when Conn actually started making horns in Abilene. There were also parts made in Elkhart that were assembled in Abilene and while this is only an opinion, I suspect that there might even be a few horns marked Elkhart that were actually assembled in Texas (again, not fact, only opinion). The plus 50 rule in determining the manufacture of Eastlake Conns doesn't always hold true, either. There are those that accuse Conn of purposely trying to obscure serial numbers so that it becomes difficult to ascertain date. Whether you believe that is accidental or by design has a lot to do with how paranoid you happen to feel at the minute. A tapered rotor is a good way to see if it is an Elkhart horn, however, don't exclude the possibility that it was assembled in Abilene from parts. Metallurgy formula changed with Abilene horns. Although their are regional differences, and condition is everything, I am inclined to believe that anywhere from $1500 to $1800 (U.S.) would be a very fair price for the horn in question...that might even be a tad low depending on how well the horn plays. caveat lector, Mark L. Hi Mark, Bill, et al, The Elkhart plant closed about August of 1972, TTBOMK. Some of the first Texas horns were, indeed, made with some parts manufactured in Elkhart. Horns were assembled in Texas from that time on starting with some parts that were left over from Elkhart. However, I believe no Texas horns were assembled with "Elkhart" on the bell. Tapered rotors don't guarantee it's an Elkhart horn. I have an "R" series horn that was assembled/mfgd in Texas, is all original and has tapered rotors but no "Elkhart" on the bell. The horns were, as you mentioned, assembled by inexperienced craftsmen and some of the first Texas horns are easy to spot because of the errors in tubing alignment. BTW, I believe the Texas plant closed around 1986. The entire horn has to be evaluated to determine if it was, in fact , assembled/mfgd in Texas. I believe the "R" series horns were the "crossover" horns and all serial numbers after that are Texas horns. The 6 digit numbers (319,xxx for instance) were repeated for a while in Texas which has been a point of confusion for those who don't know the other changes that indicate a probable Texas horn. Other changes were tapers, metallurgy, pull rings, bell engraving, non-tapered rotors on new valve clusters, etc. It was mentioned that the Texas casings were cylindrical and wore quickly to oval shape and were difficult to rebuild. This was my understanding until I had a conversation with E. Schmid. The Engelbert Schmid horns have cylindrical rotors. He indicated that the cylindrical rotors wear at the same rate as tapered rotors and that it is easier to rebuild a cylinder than a taper. He said that if the rotors/casings are made with precision and from the best materials, they will last long regardless of taper. He said that if a horn needs a rotor rebuild, he simply bores the casing to an oversize and laps in a new oversized rotor ... faster and cheaper. I would be interested to hear from knowledgeable folks if their experience differs. The bearings are another story. It was indicated that the Texas horns are identical in shape to the Elkhart horns. The taper of the leadpipe depends on where the worker cut the pipe from the mandrel. The tuning depends on, among other things, how long the bent parts of the tuning slides are made, etc. Cold solder joints, loose braces, internal solder blobs, air leaks, loose tolerances ... there is an endless list of ways a careless worker can ruin a horn that has great potential. Prices?? Check hornplayer.net for asking prices. Check eBay completed auctions for selling prices keeping in mind that the "sold" prices are for horns that are sight unseen and unplayed. The truth is somewhere in between for horns with provenance or for horns that are known to be good players. I have seen the Conn 8D sell for $500 up to $6,000. Disclaimer: The above ramblings are a distillation of many readings and conversations with pros, repair folks, horn mfgrs, and folks who worked at the Elkhart plant. I collect horns and have gone through a number of 8Ds dating from 1937 through the present so some of the above is from personal experience. As always .... your mileage may vary ... if so ... please share with the list. Regards, Jerry Old in Kansas City. _______________________________________________ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
