"sie" (speaking about more than one individuals) or "Sie" (direct speaking to somebody) can also be plural & is not gender related. "sie" can als be plural for the neutrum (it).
============================================================ ================================================= -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of harveycor Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 9:08 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Re: German Translation apology for Klaus and for Chris I apologize to Klaus and to Chris (and to anyone else) for attempting to make a correction to their posts in a language which is not my native speech, but which I have a true affection for. Whatever; I should keep my mouth shut on things that are not HR. I was curious, nothing more, on this. Please don't wipe up this list with my remains because the following is from my mom who is native German. she said specifically: sie or Sie it means 'you' and is capitalized; it also means 'they' and is not capitalized; it also means 'she' and is not capitalized. she did not mention 'it' and I did not ask best wishes Rachel Harvey ___________________________ ...It only goes to show that if you keep your head firmly tucked into your Kopprasch, nothing can hurt you-as long as the metronome doesn't run down... -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Send Horn mailing list submissions to > horn@music.memphis.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Horn digest..." > > > Please edit replies to include only relevant text. Please DO NOT > include the entire digest in your reply. For more netiquette information, see: > > http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Repair in NM (Bo Gusman) > 2. RE: Recording (Howard Sanner) > 3. Re: Re: German translation (Klaus Bjerre) > 4. RE: Religious Instruments NHR (Steven Ovitsky) > 5. RE: Religious Instruments NHR (hans) > 6. RE: Religious Instruments NHR (Steven Ovitsky) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------ ---------- > > message: 1 > date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 11:09:28 -0700 > from: Bo Gusman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: [Hornlist] Repair in NM > > > > message: 6 > > date: Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:12:01 -0500 > > from: Timothy Bradley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > subject: [Hornlist] Repair person in NM? > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > I'm moving to Albuquerque, NM and am wondering if anyone could > > recommend an excellent instrument repair person there. Feel free to > > contact me off-list if you like. Thanks in advance! > > > > Tim Bradley > > > > Contact Jim Patterson at Patterson Horn Works in Las Cruces. > > */Patterson Hornworks/* > > */3380 Thurmond Rd./* > > */Las Cruces, NM 88012/* > > */505 373-0789/* > > */866 559-HORN toll free/* > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > message: 2 > date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:40:48 -0400 > from: Howard Sanner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: [Hornlist] RE: Recording > > Peter Hirsch says: > > > I have purchased 2 Marantz PMD (Models 660 and 670)units over the > > last couple of years and am quite happy with their ease of use and > > quality of recording. > > > The thing that bothers me about these Marantz units is that for > uncompressed audio they do 16 bit, 44.1 KHz (CD standard, which, in > practice, is what you'll use most) and 48 KHz ONLY. If I were getting > something new today, I'd look, at least, for 24 bit sample size, and > probably also for 88.2 KHz or 96 KHz sampling rate. The longer sample > size makes setting levels less critical. > > A friend whose opinion I respect (and who's getting a bcc: of this) > tells me that 24 bit samples give more improvement in sound quality > than higher sample rates. FWIW, I can only do 16/44.1 at the moment, > and I do find I need to be careful with levels on "live" (as opposed > to dubs from records or broadcasts) recordings. In fact, I find > setting digital levels at sessions and concerts to be MUCH more > critical than it ever was with analog, which, theoretically, at least, > is noisier. > > Though the CD is limited to 16/44.1 and two channels, audio DVD's are > not. > > Howard Sanner > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ------------------------------ > > message: 3 > date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 15:27:06 -0700 (PDT) > from: Klaus Bjerre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: Re: [Hornlist] Re: German translation > > I am grateful towards Christopher Earnest, as he saves me from being > impolite towards somebody spelling her ignorance out in capitals. Very > literally so. > > When it comes to reading German, I in list contexts am aware of very > few members of this list surpassing me. They all are working in German > orchestras. German was one of the > 3 languages into > which I was fluent at age 2. My German vocabulary is larger than the > ones of most young Germans, and I know more about German history than > they do. > > But I was taught German as a first language, while I grew up in > Germany. Even the schools within the Danish minority was forced to use > teachers, curriculae, and books certified by the German government. > > When the family returned to Denmark because my parents did not want to > send to a boarding school, I also was taught German, but as a third > language, or really fifth, language. > The way of teaching > grammar was totally different, which ruined my written German. The > teacher was highly skilled. He often passed for a German, when taking > part in courses and conferences arranged by the German governments > (East and West). He happened to be my own father, who as lately as > today told me a few stories from these conferences, which I am not > entirely convinced, that he ever told my late mother. > > Going back earnest: English is only my 6th language. After Danish high > and low German were followed by Norwegian and Swedish before English > occurred in the 6th grade. I only have been taught English until grade > 11, which sums up to only 5 years with a low number of lessons the two > last years, as I specialised in mathematics. > > I take a deep bow, whenever somebody calls me intelligent. I can do > safely so, as they are right. > But intelligences are very specific, and the diplomacy branch thereof > is not one of mine. > > Christopher makes some suggestion for alterations of my The Messiah translation. > Formally they are > correct. Most may know, that I have been a trombone player, fewer may > know, that I was a horse whisper before that term was coined. My > experiences with females will not be publicised. Only I will reveal > that all 3 entities of trombones, horses, and women need to know about > short reigns, if they want to be treated respectfully in everyday > life. In that context I will stay by the poetry of my translation: She > sounds, the trombone. > > I happen to be a songwriter myself, but mostly in Danish. And I have > to get at poem down on paper for an 80th birthday this Saturday. And > we are 6 hours ahead of even the most advanced continental Americans. > Fortunately I have it almost ready in my head. > > Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre, > who cares not very much about being PC > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>The German text says: Sie schallt, die Posaune (She sounds, the > > >>trombone). > > > > > > with all due respect to your education and knowledge: > > > > > > I am sorry: 'SIE does not mean 'SHE': > > > > > > > Yes it does: "er" is "he", "sie" is "she", and "es" is "it". "sie" is > > also the word for "they", or when capitalized, for the polite form of "you". > > Here it is capitalized only because it starts the sentence, and it > > must mean "she" because the verb is singular. > > > > So the very literal translation is the one Klaus gave. However, a > > more correct but still literal translation is "It sounds, the > > trombone". It is correct to use "sie" in German to agree with the > > gender of Posaune, but in English one of course usually uses "it" to > > refer to an inanimate object (one obvious exception is the use of "she" to refer to a ship). > > > > An idiomatic translation is simply "The trombone sounds". But > > "Posaune" can also be tranlated in a figurative sense as "trumpet", > > so a better translaltion is probably "The trumpet sounds". > > > > Chris Earnest > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > ------------------------------ > > message: 4 > date: Fri, 21 Jul 2006 17:13:56 -0600 > from: "Steven Ovitsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > > With the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival now underway I am just > getting around to some of the posts about biblical references to horn. > > Klaus and Rachel wrote: > > >The Shofar was a trumpet made out of a ram's horn > Yes. The Bible makes hardly any distinction between trumpet and horn. > (I wish they'd make up their MINDS :} > > >Jerusalem temple having silver trumpets > I'll try to find this out from a Bible scholar I know.... > and I will tell you personally if I do find something. > > Here is a copy of my post from last September about this same subject. > The Hebrew Bible is very specific in differentiating between the > shofar and the trumpet. My favorite explanation of instruments > mentioned in the Hebrew Bible is by Alfred Sendrey in his "Music in > Ancient Israel" (Philosophical Library, 1969). > > The metal trumpet (based on Egyptian models) of the Hebrew Bible is > called "hatzotzera" (plural "hatzotzerot") and is mentioned 29 times. > The "hatzotzerah" was always used in pairs which explains why the > Bible uses the plural except once. "Hatzotzerim" is the term for the > players. The Septuagint - the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible - > correctly translates it into Greek as "salpigx". > > The ram's horn, "shofar", is mentioned 72 times. > The problem is that the Septuagint translates "shofar" as "salpigx" 42 > times, confusing the two very different instruments; especially since > they were used together in parts the ancient Temple services. > > In Latin, the Vulgate translates "shofar" 38 times as "buccina", 29 > times as "tuba". It also translates "hatzotzera" as "tuba". When both "hatzotzerot" > and "shofrot" are mentioned in the same sentence "shofar" is "tuba cornea". > > Here is a comparison of a line in Psalm 81: > Hebrew - Tiku baChodesh shofar > Latin - Buccinate in neomenia tuba (listen to the great Latin settings > by Schuetz and Gabrieli) English - Blow the trumpet on the new moon > > Most of the English (King James and I'm sure others) translations are > based on the Greek and Latin, not Hebrew. They translate Shofar as > trumpe,clarion, trumpet, bugle, etc; and Hatzotzera as trump, trumpet, bugle, cornet, etc. > > Having fun yet? There's so much more detail and then there's the > Christian Bible; but that's not in my area of study. > > BTW, you can hear my shofar playing on the Naxos CD of Hugo Weisgall's > "Tekiatot" with Gerard Schwarz and the Seattle Symphony. > > Cheers, > Steven Ovitsky > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > message: 5 > date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 07:38:55 +0200 > from: "hans" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > Hello Steven, very interesting, very interesting, but > > "salpinx" has to be written this way not "salpigx" even there is > "salpingitis" in Latin (med.). This is the classical spelling as in > Greek language. But the phonetic spelling would be "sal-pinx". There > we are again. Why to write it the complicate way (salpigx) as there is > a simple way (salpinx). > ============================================================ > =================================================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Steven Ovitsky > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:14 AM > To: 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > > With the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival now underway I am just > getting around to some of the posts about biblical references to horn. > > Klaus and Rachel wrote: > > >The Shofar was a trumpet made out of a ram's horn > Yes. The Bible makes hardly any distinction between trumpet and > horn. > (I wish they'd make up their MINDS :} > > >Jerusalem temple having silver trumpets > I'll try to find this out from a Bible scholar I know.... > and I will tell you personally if I do find something. > > Here is a copy of my post from last September about this same subject. > The Hebrew Bible is very specific in differentiating between the > shofar and the trumpet. My favorite explanation of instruments > mentioned in the Hebrew Bible is by Alfred Sendrey in his "Music in > Ancient Israel" > (Philosophical Library, 1969). > > The metal trumpet (based on Egyptian models) of the Hebrew Bible is > called "hatzotzera" (plural "hatzotzerot") and is mentioned 29 times. > The "hatzotzerah" was always used in pairs which explains why the > Bible uses the plural except once. "Hatzotzerim" is the term for the > players. The Septuagint - the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible - > correctly translates it into Greek as "salpigx". > > The ram's horn, "shofar", is mentioned 72 times. > The problem is that the Septuagint translates "shofar" as "salpigx" 42 > times, confusing the two very different instruments; especially since > they were used together in parts the ancient Temple services. > > In Latin, the Vulgate translates "shofar" 38 times as "buccina", 29 > times as "tuba". It also translates "hatzotzera" as "tuba". When both > "hatzotzerot" > and "shofrot" are mentioned in the same sentence "shofar" is "tuba > cornea". > > Here is a comparison of a line in Psalm 81: > Hebrew - Tiku baChodesh shofar > Latin - Buccinate in neomenia tuba (listen to the great Latin settings > by Schuetz and Gabrieli) English - Blow the trumpet on the new moon > > Most of the English (King James and I'm sure others) translations are > based on the Greek and Latin, not Hebrew. > They translate Shofar as trumpe,clarion, trumpet, bugle, etc; and > Hatzotzera as trump, trumpet, bugle, cornet, etc. > > Having fun yet? There's so much more detail and then there's the > Christian Bible; but that's not in my area of study. > > BTW, you can hear my shofar playing on the Naxos CD of Hugo Weisgall's > "Tekiatot" with Gerard Schwarz and the Seattle Symphony. > > Cheers, > Steven Ovitsky > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. > de > > > > ------------------------------ > > message: 6 > date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 00:04:53 -0600 > from: "Steven Ovitsky" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > Good point, Hans. My sources had both spellings and I used one. > Steve > > Steven Ovitsky > Sotone Historic Recordings > www.sotone.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of hans > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2006 11:39 PM > To: 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > Hello Steven, very interesting, very interesting, but > > "salpinx" has to be written this way not "salpigx" even there is > "salpingitis" in Latin (med.). This is the classical spelling as in > Greek language. But the phonetic spelling would be "sal-pinx". There > we are again. Why to write it the complicate way (salpigx) as there is > a simple way (salpinx). > ============================================================ > =================================================== > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Steven Ovitsky > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:14 AM > To: 'The Horn List' > Subject: RE: [Hornlist] Religious Instruments NHR > > > With the Santa Fe Chamber Music Festival now underway I am just > getting around to some of the posts about biblical references to horn. > > Klaus and Rachel wrote: > > >The Shofar was a trumpet made out of a ram's horn > Yes. The Bible makes hardly any distinction between trumpet and > horn. > (I wish they'd make up their MINDS :} > > >Jerusalem temple having silver trumpets > I'll try to find this out from a Bible scholar I know.... > and I will tell you personally if I do find something. > > Here is a copy of my post from last September about this same subject. > The Hebrew Bible is very specific in differentiating between the > shofar and the trumpet. My favorite explanation of instruments > mentioned in the Hebrew Bible is by Alfred Sendrey in his "Music in > Ancient Israel" > (Philosophical Library, 1969). > > The metal trumpet (based on Egyptian models) of the Hebrew Bible is > called "hatzotzera" (plural "hatzotzerot") and is mentioned 29 times. > The "hatzotzerah" was always used in pairs which explains why the > Bible uses the plural except once. "Hatzotzerim" is the term for the > players. The Septuagint - the Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible - > correctly translates it into Greek as "salpigx". > > The ram's horn, "shofar", is mentioned 72 times. > The problem is that the Septuagint translates "shofar" as "salpigx" 42 > times, confusing the two very different instruments; especially since > they were used together in parts the ancient Temple services. > > In Latin, the Vulgate translates "shofar" 38 times as "buccina", 29 > times as "tuba". It also translates "hatzotzera" as "tuba". When both > "hatzotzerot" > and "shofrot" are mentioned in the same sentence "shofar" is "tuba > cornea". > > Here is a comparison of a line in Psalm 81: > Hebrew - Tiku baChodesh shofar > Latin - Buccinate in neomenia tuba (listen to the great Latin settings > by Schuetz and Gabrieli) English - Blow the trumpet on the new moon > > Most of the English (King James and I'm sure others) translations are > based on the Greek and Latin, not Hebrew. > They translate Shofar as trumpe,clarion, trumpet, bugle, etc; and > Hatzotzera as trump, trumpet, bugle, cornet, etc. > > Having fun yet? There's so much more detail and then there's the > Christian Bible; but that's not in my area of study. > > BTW, you can hear my shofar playing on the Naxos CD of Hugo Weisgall's > "Tekiatot" with Gerard Schwarz and the Seattle Symphony. > > Cheers, > Steven Ovitsky > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. > de > > _______________________________________________ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/sotone%40cybe rmesa.com > > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/listinfo/horn > > End of Horn Digest, Vol 43, Issue 26 > ************************************ _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de _______________________________________________ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
