Yes, the early brochures from Thayer mentioned that they were going to
apply their valve to the french horn but they probably got sidetracked by their
success with the trombonists and by the nightmare plumbing that would be
involved to make it work on the horn. I've sketched out a bunch of possible
scenarios and they all were pretty circuitous.
The advantage of those new trombone valve designs is that the tubing can
remain round and full size through the valve. The drawback is that the valve
has to be really, really big for that to happen. Not so bad on a trombone
since there's only one, or maybe two. Make it 3 and you've got trouble fitting
it into the circle of the horn. Make it a double horn and you need an extra
player to hold the valve section!
A long time ago, valve makers dealt with the bore size vs. valve diameter
problem by making the ports in the rotor taller to make up for the fact that
they can't be deep enough. In the mid 1800s there were rotary valves that were
tiny diameter and the ports were rectangular rather than round. It looks like
furnace ductwork going in there. Google "Allen valve"(use the quotes) and you
might find some pictures. They work very well. Very fast action and they seem
to respond just fine. Modern horns do a similar thing but are much more subtle
about it. Bigger diameter valve, slightly taller port in the rotor, not in the
knuckles leading in. A long time ago, Olds made a rotor valve where the port
was perfectly round on the open horn, a little squished on the other side.
That same principal was used on the "Berliner Pumpen" in the early 1800s. It
works good if you have 1 valve down, less good the more valves you add.
Some newer horns have dispensed with all that trouble and just make a port
that's too small. Some major brands whose names I won't mention. That has an
unfortunate effect on the playing qualities.
- Steve Mumford
James and Paul wrote:
>James et al,
>I once heard that the Thayer valve was originally designed to be used on >our
>beloved Horn!
>Paul in NJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Wester" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "The Horn List" <horn@music.memphis.edu>
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 3:19 PM
Subject: [Hornlist] New designs for the Horn
>Being the tinkerer that I am, I have always been one to like the unique
>design and new cutting edge technology when it comes to most things. So
>when it comes to the horn, I've wondered why none of the new valve
>technology has made it's way into the horn world. Why hasn't anyone tried
>to incorporate the Thayer valve or True-bor/Haggman valve into horn >design.
>It seems that the only changes that are being made are maybe valve >material,
>but mostly the 3 main designs of horns have stayed the same and even on >the
>unique designs they still use the rotary valves that provide a row of
>pinched 90 degree turns. Aside from the Veneklasen horn , which appears >to
>of still used the standard rotary valves, has anyone tried to incorporate
>these new valve technologies into the horn and if so are there any links >or
>pictures of them. Maybe even reviews of how the sounded or played. I'm ||
>this close to calling Haggman and seeing if they can make their valve in >the
>12.1mm variety and
>trying to do it myself. It would have to be a single horn with these
>valves, but I have an idea as to how one could make double valves with the
>same approach.
>Anybody know of something?
>-James
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