Just quickly: I agree with both Heather and Jo. I think the Tasking Manager and associated technologies are the cornerstones on which we build mentoring, community and good practices. So much of HOT’s way of operating in a disaster is set by the current structure of the Tasking Manager. So if we build out a good new TM that explicitly allows for mentoring, learning and on-boarding then we’ll be in a better place.
Anyways for now mentoring, validating or pairing people + explicitly inviting them onto Slack / IRC for questions is definitely necessary. On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 12:44 PM Jo <winfi...@gmail.com> wrote: > Unfortunately there will constantly be new crises. So we'll always be 'in > the middle of a crisis'. > > Polyglot > > 2016-10-13 8:29 GMT+02:00 Robert Banick <rban...@gmail.com>: > > Hi all, > > HOT is clearly one of, if not the, most successful crowdsourcing projects > for humanitarian response in the world. Success means not just contributors > but also use of the data by actual humanitarians. It’s unsurprising we’re > encountering some limits to the approach and need to evolve it. > > I like Phil and John’s automated approach to these things. I think the > Tasking Manager has proven that the best way to manage these interactions > is through an automated platform. My only concern is making what’s > currently straightforward overly complex and intimidating for new users. > But that’s a call for good design and introductory materials, not dumbing > down our approach. > > However, it’s the middle of a disaster and clearly not the time for > wholesale changes. I suggest we flag these thoughts for the forthcoming > Tasking Manager redesign and embrace makeshift systems in the meantime. > > Cheers, > Robert > > On Thu, Oct 13, 2016 at 8:31 AM Phil (The Geek) Wyatt < > p...@wyatt-family.com> wrote: > > Hi Folks, > > > > I am a retired long time map user, occasional mapper (in QGIS, Mapinfo) > and supporter of the OSM mapping project. It seems to me that the issue of > poor mapping, especially for HOT projects, is coming up on such a regular > basis that it's time to consider some mandatory training for users before > they get to map under the HOT task manager. I don't think this would be too > difficult for most volunteers and it could ensure that at least a certain > level of competency is attained before being exposed to complex tasks. If > people know that in the first place then they can make a choice as to > whether they commence or continue to map. > > > > I have no idea how this could be accomplished as I know little of the > linkages between OSM and the HOT Task Manager, but restricting HOT tasks to > those with some defined training could improve the results. > > > > Let's say as a minimum you train folks on roads and residential area > polygons - that might be level 1 (ID Editor) > > Level 2 could be after training for buildings, tracks, paths (ID or JOSM) > > Level 3 for validation (JOSM) > > > > In this way HOT tasks simply get assigned at each level and you know you > have the right people doing the tasks at hand. The task manager could also > only highlight jobs at their assigned level until they do the next level > training. > > > > You might even consider, as part of validation, dropping people from a > higher level to a lower level if they continually fail to produce results > at the desired consistency. > > > > Just my thoughts as a casual mapper. > > > > > > Cheers - Phil > > > > Thin Green Line Supporter <http://www.thingreenline.org.au/>, Volunteer > Mapper (GISMO) - Red Cross <http://www.redcross.org.au/volunteering.aspx> > > > > > > *From:* Severin Menard [mailto:severin.men...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, October 13, 2016 4:34 AM > *To:* hot@openstreetmap.org > *Subject:* [HOT] OSM humanitarian mapping and its learning curve > > > > The edits on hotosm.org job #2228 <http://tasks.hotosm.org/project/2228> > have started and now happens what I feared. There is no mention of what are > the necessary skills and newbies are coming with a lot of enthusiasm but > with almost no OSM experience. A quick analysis of the first 29 > contributors shows that 20 of them have created their OSM account less than > one month ago. Some did it yesterday or today. Wow. > > The result of that : obviously, crappy edits are coming, spoiling what we > have been doing over the last few days : now we have building as nodes > where shapes are totally visible, un-squared bad shaped buildings and the > main landuse area is self-cutting in various places (see there > <https://leslibresgeographes.org/jirafeau/f.php?h=26gWjHki&p=1>). > > Nothing new under the sun : it was already the case for Haiti EarthQuake > 2010. Quite a pity that six years after, despite the OSM tools have > improved a lot, it remains the same. It is though quite simple to fix the > most part of it: > do-not-invite-newcomers-to-map-over-complex-crisis-contexts. > > I guess some will argue that the OSM newcomers are people of good will and > that they just want to help and that they my feel offended/discouraged. Of > course their intentions are high and yes they may feel a bit hurt. But this > is really a classic in humanitarian response: people with the best > intentions in the world may not fit for it, just because they are not > experienced yet. > > > > Mapping in OSM in crisis response is not an exciting one-shot hobby : it > does have its learning curve and it is key to learn how to map correctly > before being dropped over complex humanitarian contexts. This is why I > mentioned three sets of necessary skills for the jobs I created these last > days on http://taches.francophonelibre.org. And the beginner mappers who > joined the job that fitted for beginners are people that already have a few > months of OSM experience, not newcomers. Newcomers should be driven over > non urgent fields. > > If someone is not interested to learn first in not a mass media covered > crisis context : this is not a problem, it is actually a good way to see > real motivations. I personally prefer to get one mapper that will become a > huge, excellent contributor, 3-4 more occasional but still producing neat > data, than to lose 10 that would create crappy objects and just leave > forever afterwards anyway. > > > > I guess the resulting need of duplicating the number of necessary edits > (crappy ones then corrections) to get a clean data is a rather a good way > to grow the number of total contributors and the number of total edits > created through the # of the HOT TM instance that seems to be so important > for the board of HOT US Inc (two current directors have contacted me for > this purpose) to make communication and raise funds from the figures. But > what is at stake here is to provide good baseline data for humanitarian > response, not distorted metrics. > > Séverin > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > > _______________________________________________ > HOT mailing list > HOT@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/hot > > >
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