As used for I2RS, and as will be clarified in the definition Sue is
adding, "ephemeral" refers to not being preserved across restarts.
Yes, the word has multiple meanings. Almost all English words do.
Yours,
Joel
On 3/31/16 4:16 PM, Steve Braaten (sbraaten) wrote:
Ephemeral = “short-lived” or “changes frequently”
There is nothing to stop an implementation from storing the latest
“ephemeral” state in a “persistent” way such that it returns to that
state (the last known state) if it restarts for any reason (planned or
un-planned).
My humble opinion.
Steve
*From:*i2rs [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Linda Dunbar
*Sent:* Thursday, March 31, 2016 1:09 PM
*To:* Dean Bogdanovic <[email protected]>; Susan Hares <[email protected]>
*Cc:* Joel Halpern Direct <[email protected]>;
[email protected]; [email protected]; BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A <[email protected]>;
Gunter Van De Velde <[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [i2rs] [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another word -
(3/24 to 4/3) Call for opinion
Is “ephemeral” same as “volatile” (whose opposite state is ”non-volatile”)?
Is “non- ephemeral” same as “persistent” or “ non-volatile”?
Linda
*From:*OPS-DIR [mailto:[email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Dean
Bogdanovic
*Sent:* Friday, March 25, 2016 2:39 PM
*To:* Susan Hares
*Cc:* Joel Halpern Direct; [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>;
BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A; Gunter Van De Velde; [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
*Subject:* Re: [OPS-DIR] [i2rs] Ephemeral - Should we use another word -
(3/24 to 4/3) Call for opinion
Sue,
IMO, ephemeral has two meaning in i2rs architecture
1. it doesn’t survive reboot
2. you can’t roll back to a previous ephemeral state
Dean
On Mar 25, 2016, at 10:01 AM, Susan Hares <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Deborah:
Section 2 is exactly the place I would put the definition of ephemeral.
Sue
*From:*BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:*Friday, March 25, 2016 9:50 AM
*To:*Susan Hares; 'Fred Baker (fred)'; 'Gunter Van De Velde'
*Cc:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>; [email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; 'Joel Halpern Direct'
*Subject:*RE: [i2rs] [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another
word - (3/24 to 4/3) Call for opinion
Hi all,
As Alia is a co-author, I was assigned as the responsible AD for
this document. The document is not with the RFC Editor – it’s been
approved by the IESG with a revised ID needed to address comments
raised by the IESG. And so the current discussion.
I had also raised the concern on needing more clarity on the
definition of ephemeral during my AD review. The authors added some
information. That clearly was not enough. As the term is used
multiple times in the document and is the basis for another draft on
requirements (draft-ietf-i2rs-ephemeral-state) which refers
extensively to the architecture document, I agree the authors need
to add more definition. Fred has a good suggestion – the term should
be visible in a glossary section early in the document. It’s not
currently included in Section 2’s Terminology – Sue, how about
adding it to that section?
I think the authors know what is needed and thank everyone for the
discussion and their time reviewing.
Thanks,
Deborah
*From:*i2rs [mailto:[email protected]]*On Behalf Of*Susan Hares
*Sent:*Friday, March 25, 2016 9:18 AM
*To:*'Fred Baker (fred)' <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>;
'Gunter Van De Velde' <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>
*Cc:*[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>;[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>; 'Joel Halpern Direct'
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>
*Subject:*Re: [i2rs] [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another
word - (3/24 to 4/3) Call for opinion
Fred:
Thank you for the review, and your comments here. I wished I’d
asked about the word ephemeral earlier.
Sue
*From:*Fred Baker (fred) [mailto:[email protected]]
*Sent:*Thursday, March 24, 2016 2:59 PM
*To:*Gunter Van De Velde
*Cc:*Susan Hares;[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>;[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>;
Joel Halpern Direct
*Subject:*Re: [OPS-DIR] Ephemeral - Should we use another word -
(3/24 to 4/3) Call for opinion
My comment was a review comment, that the word was being used in a
way that wasn't consistent with its dictionary definition (something
with a short lifetime, quite irrespective of birth/death processes)
or common usage (at least in my context). At this point, the draft
has been sent to the RFC Editor, so to my mind this discussion is
mostly moot. If in your other drafts you are pointing people to a
glossary in the architecture document (which I imagine you already
are) and the architecture document defines the term as you are using
it, you have probably done enough.
On Mar 24, 2016, at 11:07 AM, Gunter Van De Velde
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
I am ok nowadays with using the terminology “Ephemeral”,
although for a non-natve speaker it is non-trivial exotic word,
particular if the intended usage doesn’t 100% reflect the
Webster dictionary intended meaning.
It is only about a year ago i started reading up on i2rs and
discovered this particular terminology, and at the time a google
search on this terminology was not very conclusive and resulted
to some confusion.
I understand very well the confusion at play here from
non-native english speaker perspective.
Adding text to explain the context in which the term Ephemeral
is useful/advised. fwiw now that i am used to seeing ‘Ephemeral'
as non-permanent config across reboot, i’m adapted its intended
purpose…
Is the goal to explain the intended meaning in each draft/rfc
mentioning it?
Be well,
G/
On 24 Mar 2016, at 18:02, Susan Hares <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi all:
<wg chair hat on>
The draft-ietf-i2rs-architecture document has been approved
as an RFC. In the review, the OPS-DIR review indicated that
“ephemeral” meant more than “does not survive a reboot”.
They have asked the I2RS working group if replacing
“ephemeral” with non-persistent (across power on/off or
reboot cycles) would be a better choice.
What do you think – leave at it at “ephemeral” or change to
“non-persistent (across power on/off or reboot cycles) ? We
will have a 1 week call on
This would mean every place that “ephemeral” is listed, the
authors would replace with “non-persistent”. In the first
instance, we will indicate “non-persistent (across power
on/off or reboot cycles).
<wg chair hat off>
As the author, I think we are better to define ephemeral at
the beginning as “non-persistent (across power on /off or
reboot). Changing the definition at this point, I suspect
will simply confuse people.
Sue Hares
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