On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:45 PM, Bill Kerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > >> On Mon, Oct 13, 2008 at 1:34 PM, Bill Kerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> > On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 9:10 PM, Tomeu Vizoso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Sep 26, 2008 at 11:53 AM, Bill Kerr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> wrote: >> >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI >> >> > >> >> > is this useful feedback? >> >> >> >> I think it's useful in itself, but there needs to happen quite a bit >> >> of work before it can be consumed by developers. I guess someone that >> >> knows the context in which those comments are made could translate >> >> them to more universally understandable statements, and then someone >> >> else could aggregate those with other feedback and produce some >> >> summary from all of that. >> >> >> >> > flux, year 10 student australia, has been slack in recording his >> >> > criticisms >> >> > (tends to mouth off with a negative but informed tone) but I sat with >> >> > him >> >> > and wrote them down myself, insisting on a bit more detail - he's one >> of >> >> > two >> >> > students in the class who knows some linux (more than me) - he felt >> the >> >> > xo >> >> > was lacking compared with other linux distributions >> >> > >> >> > XO DISLIKES >> >> > >> >> > Slow to load initially >> >> > Loading (splash) screen for each activity is sad, dull, not worth it >> >> > Games done cheaply compared with GNOME and KDE games >> >> > mouse pointer is too big >> >> > wants ability to replace XO icon with different icons >> >> > wants ability to create a new background >> >> > want fluxbox, a better GUI >> >> > >> >> > btw I have asked the class to try to put themselves, at least some of >> >> > the >> >> > time, into the shoes of a 6-10 yo child from the developing world >> when >> >> > providing feedback - but have also said that I want to hear >> negatives >> >> > as >> >> > well as positives >> >> >> >> I'm not sure that's the best POV for useful feedback. I cannot think >> >> myself of any features of Sugar that are specially targeted to people >> >> in developing countries and I for one would like to see Sugar evolve >> >> in an useful platform for all people independently of their age. >> >> >> >> If kids are complaining so much about the Sugar Shell means that they >> >> are "seeing" it too much. Most of the important stuff should happen >> >> inside activities, not in the Shell. My reaction to that feedback is >> >> that Sugar should dissolve itself better into the set of installed >> >> activities (by improving performance, for example) and that activities >> >> should address better the kids' interests (so they don't need to >> >> change the shell icons to get some fun). >> >> >> >> > (note the final para from death-god, he's not able to think outside >> the >> >> > MS >> >> > paradigm at this point - I plan to do some more talking about these >> >> > issues >> >> > next term) >> >> > >> >> > one memory that this triggered in me was mark shuttleworths ubuntu >> >> > manifesto: >> >> > >> >> > >> http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2007/06/mark-shuttleworths-ubuntu-manifesto.html >> >> > #13 "pretty" as a feature >> >> >> >> My suspect is that conventional desktops have a big dissonance with >> >> non-office usage, so people spend more time that they would like to in >> >> the "OS". Because of that, the desktop GUI is important for them and >> >> they want it to be pretty. If we reduced the components that the user >> >> needs to interact with, those eliminated components don't need to be >> >> pretty any more. If we reduce the time that the user needs to spend on >> >> the rest of the desktop, the importance of their "beauty" is also >> >> reduced. >> >> >> >> Not saying that Mark is wrong nor that Sugar should be ugly, just that >> >> when we hear that some part of the Sugar shell needs to look nicer or >> >> be more like traditional desktops, we may want to reflect why is the >> >> shell taking so much of the user attention and if this isn't an >> >> opportunity to streamline the experience and take ourselves out of the >> >> way. >> > >> > thanks for comment, Tomeu. I've put it up on the wiki and will attempt >> to >> > discuss these issues with the students when we go back to school >> tomorrow. >> > (we will have to get our minds back out of holiday mode first, however) >> > http://xo-whs.wikispaces.com/Sugar+UI >> > >> > one thing I have noticed with students who use linux (only a handful at >> my >> > school) is that they like the ubuntu rotating cube, they see that as new >> and >> > "cool" >> > >> > My own thoughts are more in line with what you are saying, that the OS, >> if >> > we must have one, ought to be just a way to access the activities, that >> > pretty is not important. But I do suspect strongly that to attract many >> > users (who are used to Windows) it is important and that part of the >> success >> > of ubuntu is that MarkShuttleworth has picked up on that. >> >> Agreed, we don't want to sell an OS, but may be forced into that... >> >> No idea about what we can do there, other than hiring Apple's >> marketing department :p > > > > I like walter's suggestions on this page: > http://en.flossmanuals.net/Sugar/ModifyingSugar > > tweaking the interface as an option - for both empowerment and skill > building > > I'll give it a go but fear that most students won't have the patience or > carefulness to hack the python code successfully, a few will give it a shot > but many will be easily discouraged > (trying to think of a way to make it a bit more accessible to more) > actually on a closer look walter's modifying sugar tutorial does provide quite a few low level entry points into - hacking SVG python linux that's a lot of pluses
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