Should be developer documentation. Argggg david
On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 2:22 PM, David Farning <dfarn...@sugarlabs.org> wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Kathy Pusztavari > <ka...@kathyandcalvin.com> wrote: >> I'll have to admit I don't have much right to request, complain, or even >> discuss. If I don't get off my butt and program something myself then I'm >> part of the problem. >> >> But I'll tell you, it is difficult to start in this programming environment >> where the learning curve is extremely steep (coming from Oracle and PL/SQL >> stored procedures). I'm still trying to figure out WHERE to start playing >> with Python let alone how. > > Kathy, > Developer is currently a huge hole for Sugar Labs. So, if you are > interested in contributing that would be a great place to start. > > david > >> -Kathy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org >> [mailto:iaep-boun...@lists.sugarlabs.org] On Behalf Of Walter Bender >> Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:26 AM >> To: Bill Kerr >> Cc: iaep; Sugar-dev Devel >> Subject: Re: [IAEP] [Sugar-devel] versus, not >> >> One of the real pleasures of this adventure we are on is that there has been >> thoughtful criticism of ideas. I cannot get away with vague or sloppy >> thinking. >> >> On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 4:37 AM, Bill Kerr <billk...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> I'm not sure what is meant by a "big tent" >>> >>> Why do some people want a big tent for learning theory but not a big >>> tent which accepts both FOSS and proprietary software? Phrasing it >>> that way is intended to encourage people to think about what sort of >>> thing is learning and hopefully will not be interpreted as just being >>> provocative for its own sake. >> >> FOSS is a theory of learning. We don't need to reach consensus about either >> learning theory or FOSS, but to be members of this community, we must agree >> that we can progress from critique to making positive changes. >> >>> you can have a big tent where people don't discuss learning theory >>> because it's too hard to reach agreement >>> >>> you can have a big tent where people passionately argue about learning >>> theory but actually listen to what each is saying and argue rationally >>> >>> when I look at minsky's theory of mind I see that he supports multiple >>> models of thinking but also argues against models of thinking that he >>> thinks are incorrect or which emphasise only one way of doing things, >>> eg. although he helped create connectionism he now thinks it has too >>> much influence >> >> As Martin points out, Sugar Labs is building tools. But we are not agnostic >> about how they are used. We are deliberately building affordances into our >> tools to encourage and promote learning activities that are "C" in their >> nature, because we believe that that is the principle means by which >> learners will reach a level of fluency as described by Alan. But the tools >> can be used in support of other learning theories and, to rephrase Minsky, >> "if you don't learn something more than one way, you don't learn it." >> >>> that suggests another version of a big tent which I favour - cherry >>> picking the best parts out of different learning theories / activities >>> based on criteria (not stated here) that are substantial >> >> I wear an engineer's hat: "What is the best solution I can build today?" not >> a scientist's hat: "What is the best possible solution?" >> Ergo, +1 for cherry picking. >> >>> >>> I don't believe that thinking people are agnostic about how people >>> learn >>> >>> it seems to me that alan kay has presented a possibly strategic view >>> of progress on these questions (that learning about bricks will not >>> automatically lead to building arches, that we need more than just >>> focusing on building blocks) - but that for various reasons we are not >>> in a position to implement the learning materials based on that view >>> in practice in the activities >>> >>> for me to sit in the big tent holding a strategic view feels different >>> to "too hard basket", agnosticism or a tower of babble - teaching with >>> an underlying strategic view is very different to just going along >>> with the tide >> >> The analogy to "big tent" perhaps needs more of an explanation for those not >> living day-to-day in earshot of the US political dialog. >> Republican President Ronald Reagan referred to his party as a big tent in >> the days of his popular majority. The current party is being accused of (or >> admired for) being more fundamentalist in its ideology; this "either your >> are with us or against us" approach has arguably resulted in a greatly >> contracted constituency: there are more people who identify themselves as >> Independents than as Republicans. As a result, it is being asserted both >> from within and without that the Republicans have excluded themselves from >> the debate. >> >> We must engage teachers and learners even if we do not have consensus on all >> aspects of learning theories, FOSS, or Sugar. Without the engagement, we >> don't grow. Even more important, without the engagement, we don't learn. >> That doesn't mean we don't have opinions or direction. >> >>> >>> that would mean work to understand and implement that strategic view >>> but also accept that we are not there yet (it will take some time) and >>> so it is perfectably understandable and desirable that people will use >>> and develop whatever is at hand or which they think important to >>> develop - no one can stop that anyway accept by successful arguing >>> someone out of a POV >> >> We have a long ways to go and we need to keep debating as we go. But also we >> need to continue "doing". And always be asking "Are there other ways to >> approach this?" and "How might we make this better?" >> >>> Does the "big tent" phrase add clarity to this conversation? >>> >> >> Perhaps not. But the discussion adds clarity to the overall mission of Sugar >> Labs. >> >> -walter >> >> -- >> Walter Bender >> Sugar Labs >> http://www.sugarlabs.org >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) >> IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org >> http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep >> > _______________________________________________ IAEP -- It's An Education Project (not a laptop project!) IAEP@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/iaep