> -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Andrews > Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2006 9:12 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Curiosity > > > On Wed, 2006-06-28 at 17:09 -0500, Tom Harper wrote: > > I've seen very few university-level computer science > programs that are > > effective, either for mainframes or non-mainframes. > > This conversation shouldn't wander too far OT, but I've never > understood > why people believe that computer science departments should teach m/f > particulars (or for that matter, MS-Windows particulars). > > If "computer science" deserves the "science" part of its title, then > those departments should be teaching algorithms, graph theory, game > theory, optimization, numerical analysis, NNs, functional programming, > compiler structure, objects -- stuff like that. NOT > windowing APIs, not > JCL, not Apache modules, not Visual Anything. The platform > used by the > students should be treated as incidental.
David, Total agreement! I first starting learning CS on a Xerox Sigma 7 running BPM. I learned COBOL on it. When it was replaced with an IBM S/370, 155 running MVT, my COBOL knowledge was still in tack because COBOL was standardized. Likewise, I learned FORTRAN II on a IBM 1620 (which was a real NEAT "personal computer" so to speak). > > I'll hire a kid with a fresh CS degree any day, whether he's got MVS > experience or not. There's some COBOL coder-beavers around here with > years of MVS behind them, but have no idea what O(n) means, and they > produce some truly wretched code. Yes, that is why I liked Knuth's "MIX". It had nothing to do with any actual implementation. Just a sort of generalized computer. > > Really, you want graduates with MVS skills? Talk to > vocational schools > (or to Steve) -- THEY're in the business of teaching platforms. > Computer science departments should stick to computer science. However, I got my first job, in Tech Services at City Of Ft. Worth, mainly because I knew MVT JCL and some S/370 assembler. Even college grads need to know enough to land that first job. Back then, companies were willing to train/mentor. Today's emphasis on profit seems to translate to "hire exactly what I need for the job at hand." They don't seem to want to "encourage growth" by paying for training. If you can't get it OJT, then "replace" the person. We have lost a few head count with the reason given being the that person's skill set is not aligned with our current business needs. > > Here's MIT's EECS course catalog. Notice you don't see > either MVS -or- > Windows mentioned in it. > http://student.mit.edu/catalog/m6a.html > > -- > David Andrews -- John McKown Senior Systems Programmer HealthMarkets Keeping the Promise of Affordable Coverage Administrative Services Group Information Technology This message (including any attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and its content is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, you should delete this message and are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this transmission, or taking any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
