Of course profits can be negative... Have you never heard of a loss leader? An item sold below cost generates a negative profit.
Joe On Wed, Feb 16, 2022, 09:03 Bill Johnson < 00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote: > Profits can’t be negative unless the company is fraudulently reporting. > You’re out of your league. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:46 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > Whoosh! What that means is that there are plenty of examples of massive > changes in stock prices that had nothing to do with profitability. > > I'm not sure why you keep bringing up cash flow being negative; that has > nothing to do with the issue. And, yes, pprofits can also be negative. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2022 9:22 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > LOLOLOLOL, what does that even mean? Uber is a prime example of NEGATIVE > cash flow. They’ve NEVER turned a profit to date & their negative cash flow > has been in the billions since they went public in 2019. Explains why the > stock is significantly below their IPO price. And the internet bubble is a > real thing. So is the housing bubble. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Wednesday, February 16, 2022, 9:15 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > Yeah, and the dot com crash never happened. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2022 11:17 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > Again, cash flow can be positive OR NEGATIVE. Profits are what drives > stock prices, executive compensation, and investment. Revenue drives SOME > stocks, mostly newer ones, who invest big for future profits. Which > generates negative cash flow until they reach profitability stage and > growth (and investment) begins to slow. Executive compensation has almost > nothing to do with corporate profitability. In fact many companies pay > executives in stock options not cash. You really don’t know what you’re > talking about. The S&P 500 index is a factor of profits times a multiple. > Current 2022 estimate of S&P 500 profits is estimated at $235 and > approximately a 22 multiple. Giving the index a 5170 valuation right around > where most banks and investment houses project the index will finish in 22. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Tuesday, February 15, 2022, 9:50 PM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > That's a non sequitur. You've just proven my point. > > Actions taken to improve profits take a long time to have the desired > effect. Stock prices are driven by what happens in the near term. That's > cash flow, not profits. > > Most top level executives seek to maximize their compensation, even if > that is at the expense of the long term profitability of their company. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:45 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > Then there was no need for the 1967 age discrimination law! LOL I’m not > confusing anything. This article is a continuation of the age > discrimination lawsuit filed by IBM employees in 2018. Most companies do it > to maximize profits since profits make the stock price go up and the > executives and shareholders benefit when profits go up. Cash flow can be > positive or negative. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:34 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > You're confusing cash flow with profits. Unless there are external > constraints, wages don't increase by themselves. The natural behavior in > capitalism is to not give raises unless it would cost you more for the > employee to leave.. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 8:10 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > Profits are maximized by getting rid of the older, higher cost (wages & > health care) employees and hiring younger lower cost ones. Pretty standard > capitalism. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 8:05 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > No, capitalism is designed to maximize profits. Out of control speculation > has shifted the emphasis to cash flow, which would have appalled Adam Smith. > > What happens in a rational market is that employees don't give raises > unless there is a labor shortage, and that employers try to keep productive > workers. This is especially true when they've spent a lot of money on > training. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:59 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > I didn’t say YOU pushed them out the door. The cycle of replacing higher > priced workers with lower cost ones always happens. Exactly what capitalism > is designed to do. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:55 AM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> > wrote: > > When I was young, I worked with older employees; I did not push them out > the door. Further, there are legal limits on age discrimination. What we > are seeing is the triumph of cash flow over profits, and it is not what > capitalism does in a rational environment, any more than the gulag is what > socialism does. > > In fact, there have been times and places where capitalism discriminated > against younger workers and, as above, that was not intrinsic to capitalism. > > > -- > Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz > http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3 > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf > of Bill Johnson [00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu] > Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 7:43 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: Holy Moly ... > > When we were young, we helped usher out older workers & we didn’t really > think or care about it. Now that it’s our turn in the ageist barrel, we are > shocked & dismayed. As Steve said, not really surprising. This is exactly > what capitalism does. > > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > > > On Monday, February 14, 2022, 7:36 AM, Steve Horein < > steve.hor...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Not really surprising, but I did not see much empathy for those older > employees (or IBM in general) in the comments of this topic on reddit: > > https://secure-web.cisco.com/1dfMy-SfHe1W2vtmpin7YZFmlHchVzEsEnrLinBorh28FKFlMXYGVvu6XH39F0mXTmI_0EEDnePoRd59BgGFUYlInDZj4cS4Lah_KXFSDtt4ROhIKGRu4NEQ5PP3UsGQjqFHpdEYswnDm9LBxXAamuNg9S1GEUV5Xd75UDlGGgedxhOCZhv37kD5OHRnPJfuTlH207FfjDimbiCt9oGHke9YUzhL3BUE28iRAQL7aVI42XlDOVPwLng4LOEppKFyHha1mJtpHDKiZ_-ZsCk_iAB127QAl8hxn5x3mEFA8jNKMudxxjJlZuA1BG3Zjb6tI6ShXov17AD0rzHnNdow0wwrSm3CEnsajFcU_0x_NwVOVg6Q0x_3ViP6uVuFseE31b9B74gWpZsDmQ8JOyH4adN--CvB4KrmojXi7pmufHIYZ5US2wvg1DMwEV8qfoPFgf1sjdkWwdFJ_1xB4J2iepA/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Ftechnology%2Fcomments%2Fsrq7im%2Fibm_executives_called_older_workers_dinobabies%2F > > On Mon, Feb 14, 2022 at 5:12 AM Joe Monk <joemon...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/12/business/economy/ibm-age-discrimination.html > > > > "Another email by a top executive, appearing to refer to older workers, > > mentions a plan to “accelerate change by inviting the ‘dinobabies’ (new > > species) to leave” and make them an “extinct species.” > > > > A third email refers to IBM’s “dated maternal workforce,” an apparent > > allusion to older women, and says: “This is what must change. They really > > don’t understand social or engagement. Not digital natives. A real threat > > for us.” > > > > Joe > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
