Absolutely! I fall into the last category now :( - went to tech school for data processing, RPG and RPG II some COBOL in the 70's went for my fist job with Chilton Research for a programmers position, I ended up being one of those folks you don't want to get a call from. I left there and was able to get a job with Sears hoping to be a programmer only to get a job as an operator, but I was provided the opportunity to learn application level assembler programing, everyone, even my managers and supers were assembler programmers, it was then I was taught how to shoot a dump, but my ability was limited in assembler, moving on from Sears to other gigs I had the opportunity to learn exit routines and update some JES2 MOD's (when IBM provided source) but most of my job(s), especially working with IBM was as you said, install, adim and debug system and product issues. Over time I learned how to design and build sysplex systems along with all the other all all the other cool stuff that goes with administering a z/OS SYSPLEX. most managers now only want us to document (desktop) procedures thinking it's so easy just for us to document what we do so the next kid can take over, yeah, I'd like to see that. sorry for the expanded version of my response. Carmen
On 2/6/2023 12:37 PM, Paul Gorlinsky wrote:
Absolutely! They should be taught how to program and debug first, then the constructs of individual languages. Many of us have programed on all sorts of machines from the IBM mainframe, to the IBM PC, 8080s, z80s, Univac 1050-II, Xeon, Arm, etc. and different languages from all the of different assemblers, PL/I, COBOL, FORTRAN, BASIC, REXX, C, JAVA, et.al. And can move freely between them. But alas, even company trained systems programmers AREN'T systems programmers... They are installers, administrators, etc. that can't write a lick of assembler code ... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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