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-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf
Of Tom Brennan
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 5:40 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: How long for an experienced z/OS sysprog to come up
to speed on a new environment?
That's it! Thanks for the reminder.
On 2/21/2023 12:29 PM, Pommier, Rex wrote:
> I believe SMIT gave that option and I have often wished there was a similar
> function on z/OS with ISPF panels.
>
> Rex
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On
> Behalf Of Tom Brennan
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 1:58 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to
> speed on a new environment?
>
> I forgot what system it was (maybe a panel system on AIX?) where you can run
> through the panel selections checking various options, but with the ability
> to show the final command issued. I'm pretty sure things like RACF, RMM, and
> some other ISPF dialogs just issue TSO commands under the covers, but is
> there an option to see those commands?
>
> On 2/21/2023 9:47 AM, David Spiegel wrote:
>> Hi Doug,
>> I consider relying on ISPF Panels *solely* negative, especially when
>> SysProgs should learn the Command Line, in particular for RACF Commands.
>> This is a sign of laziness.
>> I've also been in jobs where I maintained/added to ISPF Applications
>> to e.g. create a z/OS Clone, where the user fills in the "from" and "to"
>> DASD addresses and the ISPF application does the rest.
>> BTW, I am referring negatively to people who rely upon ISPF Panels
>> *and* have never heard of CBT.
>> There is no need to get offended.
>>
>> Regards,
>> David
>>
>> On 2023-02-21 12:13, Doug wrote:
>>> So David, you consider using ISPF panels a net negative? I used to
>>> write dialogs for anything repetitive that I or anyone else had to do.
>>> Never thought it was bad if "people in charge are by-the-book
>>> mentality and I can imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything
>>> from RACF to SMP/e." Especially when I was the person in charge. And
>>> I knew what the CBT tape was and is....
>>>
>>> Doug Fuerst
>>>
>>> ------ Original Message ------
>>> From: "David Spiegel"
>>> <00000468385049d1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
>>> Sent: 21-Feb-23 6:09:15
>>> Subject: Re: How long for an experiened z/OS sysprog to come up to
>>> speed on a new environment?
>>>
>>>> Hi Brian,
>>>> You said: "...so why would they question my use of anything I need
>>>> in order to perform my job efficiently? ..."
>>>> My answer is that the people in charge are by-the-book mentality
>>>> and I can imagine them using ISPF Panels for everything from RACF to SMP/e.
>>>> (At one of my jobs, the MVS Team Lead said : "CBT??? ... never
>>>> heard of it" (This guy has been an MVS Systems Programmer for more
>>>> than 30
>>>> years.))
>>>> These same people eschew creativity in any form, because, they're
>>>> scared due to ignorance.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> On 2023-02-21 00:31, Brian Westerman wrote:
>>>>> I think that's a pretty invalid point. I don't see anyone
>>>>> questioning how to write an exit or install a new system, or use
>>>>> SMPe, so why would they question my use of anything I need in
>>>>> order to perform my job efficiently?
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe it's just that they all assume I must know what I'm doing.
>>>>> If they didn't believe that, I doubt they would have asked me to
>>>>> do the project.
>>>>>
>>>>> Brian
>>>>>
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