I think we’re swerving off-topic from z/OS technical content. Matt Hogstrom m...@hogstrom.org +1-919-656-0564 PGP Key: 0x90ECB270 Facebook <https://facebook.com/matt.hogstrom> LinkedIn <https://linkedin/in/mhogstrom> Twitter <https://twitter.com/hogstrom>
“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive." — Hogstrom > On Dec 2, 2023, at 15:30, Bob Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Can't speak for anyone else, but I usually just take (or turn down) the first > offer, mostly I think out of poor self-image. Not sure why, because I don't > mind dickering over a car. > > The only exception I can remember off-hand is when a consulting company that > employed me was looking to cut costs, and asked that I go independent and > start invoicing them rather than being a W-2. They offered me the same rate > I'd been making as an employee, which wasn't going to work for me if they > stopped paying me for bench time. But mostly I say "$65/hr? Yeah, I can do > that". Shameful, I know. > > This, by the way, is one of those differences I had in mind when I said > Yankee and Indian recruiters approach the negotiation differently. American > companies have a definite range in mind and aren't usually shy about stating > it in the opening email. (Although I wouldn't be surprised if they give the > lower part of the range, knowing they can raise it if they run across a > really attractive candidate.) Indian companies don’t usually state the range > up front; instead I see "please send us your resume and your lowest rate...". > Different assumptions about the way the process should work, I suppose. > > --- > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313 > > /* The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity. > -Dorothy Parker */ > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Seymour J Metz > Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 13:05 > > How many programmers negotiate when a recruiter contacts them with a lowball > offer, and how many just move it to the circular file? When I'm looking for > people, I don't want to scare away good candidates with an offer that might > offend them; I ask "What are you looking for?". > > ________________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of > Bob Bridges <robhbrid...@gmail.com> > Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2023 12:01 AM > > ....On the other hand maybe it's just a negotiating tactic. There are > several differences in the way Indian and Yankee recruiters approach me (and > I assume everyone else too); maybe lowballing is just one of the ways they're > used to doing business, with the assumption that they'll have to go higher to > actually close the deal. > > ...$125/hr, really? I should maybe pay more attention to the advice a fellow > contractor gave me a couple decades ago. I was working for ... well, > apparently you would regard it as peanuts although it's always been adequate > for me. But Joe said I should demand $250/hr. I'd work only about a third > of the time, but since that's about three times what I typically was getting, > it would come out even - and in the slack periods I could work on some > saleable project. I understood what he was saying; I just couldn't find a > way to say "$250/hr" with a straight face. > > Maybe that's a common foible. My ex made really high-end decorated cakes, > the sort that we saw going for $150 and up at state fairs; but she couldn't > bring herself to ask more for her work than the cost of materials. She just > couldn't believe her work was worth it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Tony Harminc > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 17:37 > > I interpreted Bob's comment "...I think the rate is unusual; I'm guessing > they don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it." as meaning he > thought it (60-65 $/hr) was high. > > But I agree that finding someone with serious assembler chops for that price > isn't going to be easy. $65/hour sounds much more like an all-in > employee-with-benefits kind of rate back-calculated from a salary. > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Farley, Peter > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:31 > > Agreed, very low. I asked for and received $125/hr back in 1999 for a > complex assembler consulting job (BTAM / BDAM / multitasking / etc). With > inflation and time passing the starting rate for that kind of work has to go > over $200/hr at the very least to attract anyone with the talent and > experience. > > If it is a truly junior position though, say maintaining and perhaps > documenting old single-function utility ASM subroutines, that might not be a > terrible starting point to negotiate upwards. Anything more complicated than > that, start the negotiation higher, or much higher depending on the actual > work to be done. > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Mike Shaw > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 16:15 > > Gotta be low... > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of > Gord Tomlin > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 15:24 > > --- On 2023-12-01 14:14 PM, Bob Bridges wrote: > Pure curiosity: unusually low or unusually high? > > -----Original Message----- > From: robhbrid...@gmail.com <robhbrid...@gmail.com> > Sent: Friday, December 1, 2023 14:14 > > I have a req here from Enterprise solutions for an assembler programmer, > paying "60-65 $/hr" on corp-to-corp. Anyone wanted a copy, let me know and > I'll pass it on. > > I've never done business with this recruiter but I think the rate is unusual; > I'm guessing they don't think they can get one of their regulars to do it. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to > lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
