David, Since you are obviously my elder in the field, please enlighten me as to what the VVDS was before the ICF catalog came along. When I started, VSAM catalogs were still a thing (as were CVOLs I think) but we never had them at my shop. I was taught that the VVDS and BCS structures were the 2 components of an ICF catalog, created to overcome shortcomings of the VSAM catalog. Did VVDS's exist before the ICF catalog or were they introduced with ICF?
Rex -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of David Spiegel Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 9:33 AM To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs Hi Rex, You said: "...I never worked with either CVOLs or VSAM catalogs ..." If I may take the Bible out of context, please see: DE 32:7 זְקֵנֶ֖יךָ וְיֹ֥אמְרוּ לָֽךְ "... Remember the days of old, Consider the years of ages past; Ask your parent, who will inform you, Your elders, who will tell you: ..." Regards,. David On 2024-05-24 10:12, Pommier, Rex wrote: > Hi David, > > This is the part I was commenting on. " Then came VSAM (and VVDS?) and > VSAM Catalogs,...". I took that comment as being Dave guessing that possibly > the VVDS came along with VSAM catalogs which I believe were a stepping stone > between CVOLs and ICF catalogs. I never worked with either CVOLs or VSAM > catalogs but I was pretty sure the VVDS came along with the ICF. > > Rex > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On > Behalf Of David Spiegel > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2024 8:55 AM > To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs > > Hi Rex, > "...Followed by SMS and VVDS for non-VSAM datasets ..." > This was meant (AFAIK) to state that VVDS for Non-VSAMs came into use with > SMS-Controlled DASD Volumes. > It is also true that VVDSs were introduced with ICF Catalogs (circa 1981, > recalled and re-released in 1982). > > Regards, > David > > On 2024-05-24 09:44, Pommier, Rex wrote: >> Didn't the VVDS come along with the ICF catalog structure? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >> Behalf Of Gibney, Dave >> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 10:32 PM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs >> >> All speculation on my part. One system with no DASD, you need neither. >> On a system with only one, of just a few DASD volumes, a VTOC is required to >> say where on the volume a dataset is and the basic attributes of PS and PDS >> datasets. >> >> Once you get to several always mounted DASSD volumes, it becomes a pain to >> need to remember and specify VOLSER in the JCL. >> >> CVOLs where an early attempt to solve this problem. Then came VSAM >> (and VVDS?) and VSAM Catalogs, and somewhile later ECf/Catalogs. >> Followed by SMS and VVDS for non-VSAM datasets >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List<IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On >>> Behalf Of Mike Schwab >>> Sent: Thursday, May 23, 2024 8:24 PM To:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU >>> Subject: Re: VTOCs vs. catalogs >>> >>> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] >>> >>> For the most part the catalog lets you locate your dataset no matter >>> which volume you put it on. >>> For non-vsam, that is about all that is stored, dataset >>> characteristics are in the VTOC. >>> And with non-SMS volumes you can have uncataloged datasets on DASD >>> or tape. >>> >>> VSAM came from the Future Systems development as a complete >>> replacement, Lynn Wheeler has posts about that. >>> It was cut back to be an addition to MVS, then combined with CVOL >>> catalogs to ICF. >>> >>> On Thu, May 23, 2024 at 9:32 PM Phil Smith III<li...@akphs.com> wrote: >>>> I'm curious whether any of you old-timers can explain why we have >>>> both VTOCs and catalogs. I'm guessing it comes down to (a) VTOCs >>>> came first and catalogs were added to solve some problem (what?) >>>> and/or (b) catalogs >>> were added to save some I/O and/or memory, back when a bit of those >>> mattered. But I'd like to understand. Anyone? >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> - >>>> -- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>>> send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >>>> IBM-MAIN >>> >>> -- >>> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA >>> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all? >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> - >>> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >>> send emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO >>> IBM-MAIN >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, >> send >> emailtolists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - The information contained in this message is confidential, >> protected from disclosure and may be legally privileged. 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