Related to this, I watched a talk by Matt Godbolt (of Compiler Explorer
https://godbolt.org/ fame) and, although it's based on x64 examples, the
principles are much the same. I've seen some of what Z boxes can do and
it's obvious IBM is still improving speed and efficiency. FTW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HNpim5x-IE

Who was it who used wear a "nanosecond" (around 1 foot) as part of a
necklace, then remind people electrical signals run a bit slower than the
speed of light in a vacuum?

And every time I hear that a divide instruction can take up to e.g. 80
cycles, while the same processor can pipeline several additions in parallel
per cycle, I am surprised again.

Roops


On Thu, 17 Apr 2025, 08:56 P H, <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Most of the key points have already been mentioned by others. Important
> thing to remember is that GHz on their own don't mean much.
>
> A bit of history:
>
> zEC12 was 5.5 GHz, z13 went down to 5.0 GHz, z14 5.2 GHz, z15 5.2 GHz, z16
> 5.2 GHz,  z17 5.5 GHZ
>
> At the time of the z13 announcement there was a lot discussion as to how
> going from 5.5 GHz to 5.0 GHz gave a better 'performance'.
>
> It has to do with the total System design and not just GHz. Below are some
> points which were made at that time and are still relevant etc.
>
>
>
> §Why the overall CPU frequency evolution approach is changing ?
> ̶Consistent frequency growth in the past decade
> •from hundreds of MHz to GHz
> ̶Core frequency has been reduced in the past couple of years̶
> Designing chips for better performance
> ̶Limits are imposed by physics, technology or economics
> ̶Limitations in core frequency drives improvements in different dimensions
> ̶Different processor architectures have different issues with core
> frequency increase
> Physical limitations
> ̶Speed of signal lines form one end to the other on a chip
> ̶Power consumption and heat dissipation (cooling)
> ̶How many memory elements (caches) can be within a given latency from the
> CPU
> Physical limitations force the designers to make trade-offs
> ̶“Shrinking” a processor chip
> •pro: Faster due to shorter signal lines
> •con: Reduced area for heat dissipation
> ̶Lowering the processor voltages would make transistors switch quicker
> •pro: Frequency could then be increased
> •con: Current also increases creating more heat
> §Sounds easy.. but… it causes serious problems with cooling
>
> GHz is not the only dimension that matters
> ̶z Systems focus is on balanced system design across
> many factors:
> •Frequency, pipeline, efficiency, energy efficiency,  cache/memory
> design and I/O design
> •Greater logic density, power density, wire-ability. All permits more
> cores per chip, larger cache, additional execution units/circuits,
> addition of SMT and SIMD on each core.
> System performance is not linear with frequency
> ̶Need to use LSPR and z Systems capacity planning tools for real client /
> workload sizing
> z Systems leverages advanced technologies to get the most out of chips’
> design
> ̶Low latency pipelines
> ̶Dense packaging with proper cooling which yields more power-efficient
> operation
> ̶Consistent performance at high utilization
> The IBM z13
> ̶z13 is a significant change from zBC12
> ̶Processor speed measured in instructions per second (for a given
> workload) has increased as compared to the zBC12 due to:
> •Wider pipeline (up to six instructions per cycle)
> •Enhanced branch prediction
> •Optimized resolution of dependencies between instructions.
> •Cache size and design enhancements
> Processor frequency increase
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <[email protected]> on behalf
> of Charles Mills <[email protected]>
> Sent: 16 April 2025 17:11
> To: [email protected] <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: z17
>
> If you Google <why processors not getting faster> you will see Reddit and
> Quora threads going back to about 2010 covering just this topic. I was
> going to post a link or two but no one article is perfect. They are all
> oriented (of course!) toward the Intel 486/Pentium/etc. family but chips is
> chips, more or less. The same physics applies. So if you wish, do your own
> Googling.
>
> The detail reasons have been posted by others. Fast cycle time = more
> power = more heat = big problem on a small piece of real estate. Size
> (length of electrical signal), heat dissipation and cycle speed work
> against each other.
>
> Processors actually HAVE been getting faster. The chips are getting faster
> not in terms of cycle speed but rather in terms of greater parallelism and
> new instructions that do more in a single cycle. Same for Intel, by the way.
>
> The "new instructions" part is why IBM puts so much emphasis on
> recompiling (or re-sort-of-compiling with the COBOL ABO) existing COBOL
> applications.
>
> The various "do X on condition" instructions (where X is load, store,
> etc.) that came along a couple of arch levels ago are a great example. They
> replace (if you code them in HLASM, or let a compiler generate them) the
> classic compare/branch/load or store sequence. Branches are a parallelism
> killer because they make the chip consider two different paths. Conditional
> instructions are not. The vector instructions are a great example of single
> instructions that do more with their cycles than their predecessors did.
>
> Charles
>
> On Wed, 16 Apr 2025 08:29:43 -0500, Steve Beaver <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >What I am disappointed in is the CP's have not gone faster than 5.5 Ghz.
> >
> >I know the z17 is an evolution, but why have they not gotten faster?
>
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