Bill, So you have not seen these things. Others have. Please accept their word for this.
If you were as rich as Warren Buffet then you could afford to employ others to work out if you need a haircut. Maybe you could teach yourself those skills. Your logic takes us down a path of only taking advice from those who have no experience. Your choice. Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: 04 June 2019 13:52 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Just how secure are mainframes? | Trevor Eddolls In 40 years, I’ve never seen any company I’ve worked for have their mainframe hacked or compromised. Including a bank and multiple insurance companies. Plus, I was in positions to know. I have seen numerous hacks and compromises of non mainframe platforms at those companies. As Warren Buffett says: Never ask your barber if you need a haircut. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 8:44 AM, Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw <lenni...@rsmpartners.com> wrote: Bill, It is very difficult to prove the negative. Hence, your claim that your system has never been hacked is difficult to prove. I think it is possible that your system has been "hacked" and your data has been exfiltrated. There is no reason for the hacker to call attention to that fact that you have been hacked. However, by maintaining that you have not been hacked, and also maintaining that it is very unlikely that you would ever be hacked, I fear you are doing your employers a disservice. Actually, I work through RSM partners as an independent contractor. Yes, they sell security services. Yes, I am sometimes called upon to deliver such services. Nothing to hide here. Most people have to work for a living. I imagine you do too. Just because one works in an industry does not mean one's opinion of the industry is invalid; in fact, the opposite is frequently true. Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: 04 June 2019 12:37 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Just how secure are mainframes? | Trevor Eddolls How do you demonstrate something that hasn’t happened? LOL I see your company sells security services too. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Tuesday, June 4, 2019, 5:59 AM, Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw <lenni...@rsmpartners.com> wrote: How do you demonstrate that you have never been hacked? Lennie Dymoke-Bradshaw | Security Lead | RSM Partners Ltd Web: www.rsmpartners.com ‘Dance like no one is watching. Encrypt like everyone is.’ -----Original Message----- From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf Of Bill Johnson Sent: 04 June 2019 01:04 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [IBM-MAIN] Just how secure are mainframes? | Trevor Eddolls 40 years on numerous mainframes at more than a dozen companies and we’ve never been hacked and never had any need for penetration testing. Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone On Monday, June 3, 2019, 11:54 AM, Clark Morris <cfmt...@uniserve.com> wrote: [Default] On 2 Jun 2019 19:11:41 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Bill Johnson) wrote: >He’s selling plain and simple. So is Mugzak. Some laboratory bs that he will >even show you in application code. Then no doubt analyze your application code >for a small (large) fee. Nobody is saying the mainframe is fool proof. But, it >is inherently (by design) more secure than any other platform. And, a major >reason why almost every bank, insurance company, and major retailers still >have them. >Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone > As a retired systems programmer whose only computer related investments are Microsoft, IBM and HPE my belief is that if your organization's computer system is connected to the Internet (including from PC's using TN3270 emulation), your organization is subject to attack. If it does not have a group or outside organization such as IBM, Trevor's organization or ITschak's organization doing periodic ongoing penetration testing, your organization won't know what vulnerabilities exist. Since I don't know enough about the Unisys mainframes to comment on how well they can be secured, I can't comment on how secure they can be made but I do know it is a major effort to take advantage of all the tools on any system in making it secure and keeping it that way. If I knew of any major mainframe user that does not continually check their systems for vulnerabilities, I would be tempted to short sell their stock because they probably either have been breached or will be in the near future. Clark Morris > >On Sunday, June 2, 2019, 9:57 PM, Clark Morris <cfmt...@uniserve.com> wrote: > >[Default] On 2 Jun 2019 14:46:41 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main >00000047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu (Bill Johnson) wrote: > >>He’s trying to sell his company’s security services. Something I thought was >>not allowed on this list. >> >Whether or not he is selling something and I don't read his posts that >way, he is making some valid points. As a retired MVS (I was back in >applications by the time z/OS was available) systems programmer, I am >far more skeptical about the invulnerability of z/OS. It is too easy >to have decades old stuff still in a system in part because people >don't know why it is there or are unaware of its existence. How much >effort is required for an installation to achieve even 95 percent of >the invulnerability that is theoretically possible and keep that up. >How many holes are left in the average shop because people don't >understand the implications of all of both IBM and vendor defaults >where I will almost guarantee that there are at some defaults that >leave a system open to hacking. I think that it is difficult to >understand all of the implications of an action. Many shops may be >running exits or other systems modifications that have worked for >decades and because they work, no one has checked them to see if they >have an unintended vulnerability. I hope that none of my code that is >on file 432 of the CBT Tape (Philips light mods) has any vulnerability >but the thing that scares me is that I might not be smart enough to >find it even if I was looking for it. Good security isn't cheap. Z/OS >may be the most secure starting base but it requires real effort to >actually implement it with both good security and good usability. How >much vulnerability is there in the test systems? How much are the >systems programmer sandboxes exposed to the outside world? What >uncertainties exist in systems vendor code? Are organizations willing >or able to periodically test their systems' vulnerabilities? Can be >secure does not mean is secure? > >Clark Morris >> >>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone >> >> >>On Sunday, June 2, 2019, 4:04 PM, Seymour J Metz <sme...@gmu.edu> wrote: >> >>> * As part of a APF authorized product there is a SVC or PC routine >>> that when called will turn on the JSBCAUTH bit >> >>Ouch! >> >>If it's APF authorized then why does it need to do that? And why would you >>allow such a vendor in the door? >> >>Did you have a tool that discovered that the vendor's SVC turned on JSCBAUTH, >>or did you have to read the code like the rest of us? > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN > > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- >For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send >email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN ---------------------------------------------------------------------- For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
