That doesn't sound promising. My thought was to use the environment development (Cobol and some Assembler), target CICS with VSAM and DB2. This is a RACF shop with third party SCM.
Then the developers might get better response time for their development and test batch jobs. I certainly would not expect developers to manage the environment that would be the role of the Sysprog so if we could clone an LPAR on the mainframe to bring down, then there shouldn't be too much work to do hopefully. We are not a Sysplex shop so that would not be an issue for the moment. Standing up Linux boxes would not be an issue since the place uses AWS extensively so I could just ask the Digital guys to spin up some Linux image for us and we do the rest :-) I might broach the topic with the developers just to gauge interest. On Sat, Oct 12, 2019 at 7:00 AM Frank Swarbrick <frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> wrote: > You just expressed all of my concerns. I personally would be happy to do > a lot of "systemish" things in this environment, but I can't imagine it > makes sense for most developers. > > ________________________________ > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf > of Jousma, David <000001a0403c5dc1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 11:56 AM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> > Subject: Re: IBM Z Development and Test Environment (zD&T) > > So, we took a peek at licensing zD&T. We did a trial on it, and stood a > couple instances up. As others have mentioned, it is the ADCD image, and > has all products. The "problem" for us, is that we don’t have an all blue > software stack. So to do anything meaningful, that might resemble what > you are already running you'll have to roll-your-own image. IBM does > provide utilities to clone a MF based image, and build a zD&T image. We > happen to be all parallel sysplex. To keep things simple, I'd have to > build a stand-alone environment to clone from, or go to the effort of > building a VM environment on ZD&T, and then stand up an emulated CF, and > LPAR. Then what about security? WE happen to be a CA-TSS shop, but even > if you are a RACF shop you cannot just load your RACF database to the ZD&T > image, otherwise nothing IBM provided will run since none of the tasks, etc > would be the same names. > > So, then you are faced with basically reproducing your entire system > environment in this space. While IBM allows you to use all of their > products, we've found out that the other vendors aren’t quite so generous. > The other big problem for us, is that we just don’t have the staffing at > this time to provide all the care and feeding building and maintaining it > will require. The other problem that we see is that an image that a > developer spins up wont have the knowledge let alone sysprog access to > start/stop regions, etc, etc, etc. IBM's answer was just give them the > access, if they screw it up, just wipe it out, and reclone the image. The > problem is you are asking developers to do things in this environment that > they would have not access to do on the "real systems" and would generate > endless calls to my team for support. > > About the only use case we can find is for DB2 development work, testing > queries, table design, etc. > > > > _____________________________________________________________________________________________________ > Dave Jousma > AVP | Manager, Systems Engineering > > Fifth Third Bank | 1830 East Paris Ave, SE | MD RSCB2H | Grand > Rapids, MI 49546 > 616.653.8429 | fax: 616.653.2717 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On Behalf > Of Matt Hogstrom > Sent: Friday, October 11, 2019 1:34 PM > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: IBM Z Development and Test Environment (zD&T) > > **CAUTION EXTERNAL EMAIL** > > **DO NOT open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or > unexpected emails** > > The customer has to provide the host Linux environment. The images will > vary depending on where you sourced your images. There is no magic on > creating the customized environments. Someone needs to define the > resources (IMS, tables, load modules,...). This could be the system > programmer or the developer or tester. > > Think of it more as a pipeline where the each person does their part DBA > theirs, etc.). > > Once you have the flavor of what you want you can copy the volumes for > each user’s instance. Ideally you’ll have automation to recreate them. > There are a set of tools as part of ZD&T that can assist > > I believe there is docker support as an alternative to running heavier > weight VMs. Docket is interesting as it allows you to amortize the base > image cost across multiple instances > > Matt Hogstrom > +1 (919) 656-0564 > > > On Oct 11, 2019, at 08:42, scott Ford <idfli...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Frank: > > > > We are in Partnerworld , this one is new to me . I *ASSUME ( I know ) > > that the customer has to have the Linux hardware for the Deploys , etc. > > Can someone from IBM confirm this ? My assumption is you could run on > > another host environment ... > > > > Scott > > > >> On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 7:42 PM Frank Swarbrick > >> <frank.swarbr...@outlook.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >> Starting a new thread...just because. > >> So does anyone have an experience actually using this? > >> Do you have Enterprise Edition? > >> Does each developer have a zD&T "instance"? > >> Do you build an "image" from an existing mainframe z/OS environment > >> and then have the developers deploy that image to their personal > instance? > >> What about testers? On > >> https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/SSTQBD_12.0.0/com.ibm. > >> zsys.rdt.tools.user.guide.doc/topics/provisioning.html > >> is states "This process can be done by any application programmer or > >> tester on-demand whenever they need a new environment." That seems > >> almost too good to be true! > >> What if a developer needs to create new resources for their > >> environment, i.e. files, DB2 tables, IMS databases and PSBs, MQ > >> queues et al? Do those get created by system programmers on the > >> source image and then deployed by the developer to their personal > instance, or what? > >> How much work is it to get data moved from the mainframe to a > >> development instance? > >> It all sounds great in theory, but I'd love to hear about some real > >> world usage. > >> > >> Frank > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> - For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, > >> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO > >> IBM-MAIN > >> > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > *IDMWORKS * > > > > Scott Ford > > > > z/OS Dev. > > > > > > > > > > “By elevating a friend or Collegue you elevate yourself, by demeaning > > a friend or collegue you demean yourself” > > > > > > > > www.idmworks.com<http://www.idmworks.com> > > > > scott.f...@idmworks.com > > > > Blog: www.idmworks.com/blog<http://www.idmworks.com/blog> > > > > > > > > > > > > *The information contained in this email message and any attachment > > may be privileged, confidential, proprietary or otherwise protected > > from disclosure. 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