Hi Peter,
If by "this vendor" you mean z/XDC, we have been increasingly
supporting 64-bit debugging starting pushing two decades ago, and
several years ago, z/XDC (in step with z/OS) has reached full
maturity. It is now quite comprehensive.
Also, we will soon be beta testing a "dump/XDC" that will be able to
process against System dumps, //SYSMDUMP dumps, and stand-alone dumps.
Best,
Dave
At 3/26/2020 02:44 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
Well, I will have to see what our ISV dump debugging product is
capable of when (or if . . .) we move into EntCobol 6.3, where
64-bit is being introduced to COBOL programs for the first time. Of
course, that move itself is another rotten can of worms entirely,
not for this discussion.
I'm not sanguine that this particular dump debugging vendor will
meet our needs, but it remains to be seen. Maybe by the time we
need 64-bit support this vendor will have caught up, or maybe by
that time IBM will have finally understood how bad a mistake its
XPLINK direction for 64-bit code really is and engineer something
far easier to use and to integrate easily into non-ISV customer
development and production support environments, but I'm not hopeful
in either case.
I suspect that in many cases of such restrictions some ancient
historical decision (justified or not) is what determined the
restriction, the decision makers have long departed the company, and
no one has looked at the restrictions since.
ObSchiller indeed. Thanks for the reference, and how very true.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On
Behalf Of Seymour J Metz
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:55 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 64-bit application dump analysis [was: RE: Problems
with ESTAEX invoked in AMODE 64 . . . ]
ObSchiller IPCS is part of z/OS. All dangerous facilities of IPCS
are controlled by SAF. If your management capriciously prohibits
you from using it, the responsibility is theirs. It's certainly
their prerogative to ban, e.g., IEFBR14, but no outside company is
obligated to rescue them from the consequences of their decision.
Not all companies take essential tools away from their application
developers.
--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
________________________________________
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on
behalf of Farley, Peter x23353 [peter.far...@broadridge.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:26 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 64-bit application dump analysis [was: RE: Problems
with ESTAEX invoked in AMODE 64 . . . ]
Mike,
That's all well and good for an ISV such as yourself who has the
freedom to use whatever debugging tools you choose to use, but
what are programmers in non-ISV shops without application
programmer access to IPCS supposed to do?
z/XDC is a wonderful interactive debugging tool with which I am
quite familiar, but it's not so helpful for ordinary HLL
interactive debugging (other than Colesoft's very fine c/XDC, to
which I do not have access) except in very complex debugging tasks
not covered by ISV interactive products.
I haven't touched TSO TEST in umpty-ump decades and probably
wouldn't use it even if offered the opportunity. In my experience
it was a real bear to use, especially compared to z/XDC
today. FWIW, I had to debug a quite complex assembler / BTAM /
multitasking application running under the MVS of the day using
only TSO TEST at a client site in another country. Got the job
done, but definitely not an experience I ever wish to repeat.
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU> On
Behalf Of Mike Shaw
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: 64-bit application dump analysis [was: RE: Problems
with ESTAEX invoked in AMODE 64 . . . ]
On 3/26/2020 12:11 PM, Farley, Peter x23353 wrote:
> Peter,
>
> If SYSABEND and SYSUDUMP don't now and aren't likely to
support 64-bit storage in the future, then what are application
programmers coding 64-bit programs (well, 31-bit resident code
that uses 64-bit storage areas, to be specific) supposed to use
for abend debugging? IPCS? ISV products?
<snip>
Yes.
An ESTAE(X), IEATDUMP to dump the storage from the ESTAE(X) exit,
and IPCS to analyze it. We have been doing that for our non-APF
authorized application that runs AMODE(64) since z/OS V1R12.
z/XDC or TSO/E TEST command for interactive debugging.
Mike Shaw
MVS/QuickRef Support Group
Chicago-Soft, Ltd.
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