On 4/11/2025 1:01 PM, Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>> ESPs and other entities that send email on behalf of others have a
>> need to know when delivery errors occur.
> An ESP and other senders 'on behalf of' are not 'intermediary'. They
are agents
> of the author. Hence any issues for them are internal to the author's
> organization.
Interesting this point did not garner a response.
> Since they are originating the message, they are not 'changing' the
SMTP Mail
> From. They are simply creating it, using their own address. There
is nothing
> in email that makes this an issue, except for linking SPF and DMARC.
> As for 'pinning down the details of the failure', what does that mean?
For one example, when DSNs are generated they may not contain sufficient
information about the email to permit the relevant recipient to be
identified in the ESP's records
So, the ESP did not use processes and/or labeling sufficient to their
needs and/or the needs of their customers.
>> *Mitigation:*
>>
>> In DKIM2 DSNs are passed back along the outgoing path so the
ESP will
>> receive the DSN and, depending on contractual arrangements, may be
>> able to avoid passing this message any further back along the
chain.
> This is relying on the complex return handling path when it isn't
needed.
The ESPs and mailbox providers we have talked with are enthusiastic.
That`s nice. How enthusiastic are all the other systems that will need
to change?
ps. Since you are implying widespread support, please offer relevant
sampling and population data.
>> *Issue:*
>>
>> A mailing list wishes to learn when email it has handled cannot be
>> delivered. At present DSNs (as opposed to next hop delivery
>> rejections) are often passed to the originator of the email (the
>> value in the [RFC5321] MAIL FROM) and are invisible to the mailing
>> list.
...
> Solving a non-problem.
> A mailing list is generating a new message posting. It can choose
the SMTP
> Mail
>From to be anything it wants, including itself, and this is common.
So this is
> not a problem and does not require additional mechanism.
We will have to differ there.
You mean they can't do what I described?
What is the substance of where/how we differ?
d/
--
Dave Crocker
Brandenburg InternetWorking
bbiw.net
bluesky: @dcrocker.bsky.social
mast: @[email protected]
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