A reply: "I must say, I find it very difficult to believe C. kousa subsp. kousa would be found in Sikkim considering it is only known from Japan and Korea and with C. kousa subsp. chinensis geographically in between. I wonder whether there may be a connection between these Manipur plants and the Sikkim find. I also wonder if the Sikkim plants are catagorically, *definitely *deciduous. Nick"
On 22 January 2013 13:27, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: > Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please. > > Some earlier relevant feedback: > > Looks like Cornus kousa to me. Recently reported as a new record to India > from Sikkim. > Requesting you to go through this paper in > TAIWANIA<http://tai2.ntu.edu.tw/taiwania/pdf/tai.2012.57.1.77.pdf> > Regards, > Ritesh. > > Thank you for your help. This is most definitely not Cornus kousa. The > fruit are much bigger and drop green. Cornus kousa has red fruit that are > smaller only 1-1.5 cm diameter. > http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=2&taxon_id=242443980 > > > The largest of these fruit were over 4 cm in diameter. > Nor does this key out to be Cornus capitata. > I will certainly follow up your Taiwania link. > Kind regards > Paul > > The Taiwania article is very interesting and the fruit look remarkably > similar. Interesting that the fruit are also > 4 cm in diameter. > If this is Cornus kousa subsp. kousa then it would be new to Manipur? > Kind regards > Paul > > > Thanks for writing me back. As the Taiwania paper mentions, Cornus is > represented by only 3 (+1 as C. kousa) species in India., I too think your > plant could be a new record to Manipur. Other three species do not match > well with your photographs. Mentioning below the differentiating characters > along with the links which you can check with your photographs/specimens. > Cornus > capitata<http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=52295&flora_id=2>: > Leaf blade narrowly elliptic or oblong-lanceolate. Fruits pubescent with > small white trichomes. > Cornus > elliptica<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cornus_elliptica_-_J._C._Raulston_Arboretum_-_DSC06227.JPG>: > Fruits globose, but leaves abaxially white pubescent. > Cornus > oblonga<http://www.google.co.in/imgres?q=Cornus+oblonga&hl=en&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1366&bih=653&tbm=isch&tbnid=GazJ4DZI9i8RKM:&imgrefurl=http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx%3Fobject_id%3D116050%26flora_id%3D5&docid=8ldcMHDMH2TAzM&itg=1&imgurl=http://www.mobot.org/mobot/PakistanImages/88-Cornaceae/Cornus_oblonga.jpg&w=573&h=900&ei=og7uULL6D87VkwXj4YDQAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=4&vpy=85&dur=429&hovh=281&hovw=179&tx=47&ty=124&sig=117898644347722817049&page=1&tbnh=143&tbnw=91&start=0&ndsp=26&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:88>: > Fruits onlong. > Hope this helps. > Regards, > Ritesh. > > > I was with Paul in Manipur. What's interesting about this Cornus is that > it doesn't quite fit with any Asian Cornus I can think of, or find > described. It is clearly close to C. capitata, which is common here in the > UK from many introductions, over a very long period, from right across its > natural range. Kingdon-Ward mentions finding C. capitata on Sirhoi in 1948, > which will undoubtedly be this same taxon as Khorrung is a stone's throw > from Sirhoi. But I have measured the fruit at up to 6cm across (Paul was > being conservative!). C. capitata fruit are described as 1.5-2.5cm > diameter, purple-red at maturity and 'densely covered in white trichomes', > unlike ours - these dropped green as Paul's photos show. The fruits are > 'flattened globose', as per C. capitata. It showed every sign of being > fully evergreen, unlike C. kousa. It made trees up to perhaps 9m tall, > unlike any C. kousa subsp. kousa. The very few flowers we saw (aberrant > autumn flowers on part of one tree only) were white, unlike the pale yellow > usually seen on C. capitata, though some are described as 'whitish'. C. > capitata foliage is described as being abaxially 'densely pubescent with > thick, white, appressed trichomes'. Our plant is abaxially glabrescent, > with very few tiny hairs, feeling almost smooth to the touch. C. capitata > has leaves adaxially 'grey-green', whereas ours are green. > Cornus oblonga is a very different plant. > C. elliptica, only know from China, is, as you point out, with leaves > abaxially white pubescent. The abaxial hairs are more abundant than in C. > capitata, making them feel rougher. It has leaves adaxially glossier green > than C. capitata, like our plant. It again has fruits only '1.5 to 2.5cm > diameter' and 'globose'. Again densely covered in white trichomes, unlike > ours. > It fits none of the Cornus described from India and as far as I can tell, > anything else! > See attached further photos. > Many thanks for your interest > Nick Macer > > Thanks Nick for digging this more deep. I agree that the fruits are much > bigger and leaves are different too. I could not guess the fruit's size > with the previous photos. Definitely it is not C. kousa ssp. kousa. Let us > know if you describe it as a new species. > All the best. > Regards, > Ritesh. > > * Sorry for confusion, but I completely neglected to consider C. > hongkongensis. It would seem this is the closest candidate, but the fruit > are still much larger than anything so far recorded.* If it does turn out > to be this species it would about as disjunct a population as the C. kousa > kousa in Sikkim!! > Cheers > Nick > > > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Paul Barney <[email protected]> > Date: 9 January 2013 01:35 > Subject: [efloraofindia:143093] Cornus sp. from Khorrung, Ukhrul, Manipur > for ID help > To: [email protected] > > > Dear all, > We found this Cornus sp. on top of Khurrong Hill in Manipur on the site of > a Japanese camp during WW2. The Cornus we large trees in amongst > Quercus lamilosa forest. The majority of the fruit had dropped to the > ground and shown no signs of turning another colour beyond green. Our > guides > ate the fruit although they were not quite ripe. They were clearly Cornus > but not of a speciea I am familiar with. > Kind regards > Paul Barney > > Date/Time- 17 Nov 2012 10 am > > Location- Place, Altitude, GPS- Khurrong, Ukhrul, Manipur > > Habitat- Garden/ Urban/ Wild/ Type- Woodland > > Plant Habit- Tree/ Shrub/ Climber/ Herb- Tree > > Height/Length- Ht up to 10 metres > > Leaves Type/ Shape/ Size- > > Inflorescence Type/ Size- not seen > > Flowers Size/ Colour/ Calyx/ Bracts- > > Fruits Type/ Shape/ Size Seeds- Fruit up to 4 cm > > Other Information like Fragrance, Pollinator, Uses etc.- Edible. Eaten by > the locals > > > > -- > > > > > > > -- > With regards, > J.M.Garg > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1 > 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' > The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a *thousand species*& > eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged > alphabetically & place-wise): > http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use > them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. > For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, > please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: > http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2030 members & > 1,42,000 messages on 31/12/12) or Efloraofindia website: > https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database > of more than 7500 species). > Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of > India'. > -- With regards, J.M.Garg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a *thousand species* & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise): http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg. You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image. For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group: http://groups.google.co.in/group/indiantreepix (more than 2030 members & 1,42,000 messages on 31/12/12) or Efloraofindia website: https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/ (with a species database of more than 7500 species). Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'. --
