I know Gurcharanji i was underscoring the futility of relying on old literature
and i thought it was funny: the seed count, that's all. may be difference in numbers of seeds translates into a difference in size of the fruits? or the seeds? of course botanical diagnosis is an art ... like medical diagnosis usha di On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 9:30 AM, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: > Ushadi > In systematics we say, if some characters overlap, we do not rely on > single character, but a combination of characters. > > Dr. Gurcharan Singh > Retired Associate Professor > SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 > Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. > Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 > http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ > http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ > > On Fri, May 1, 2015 at 7:57 AM, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Thank you Dr Singh. It was from your post and the well-explained >> differences between *A. arvensis* and *A. foemina* that I had concluded >> my sample to be *A. arvensis subsp. caerulea*. >> >> Regards, >> Ashwini >> >> >> On 01-May-2015, at 7:14 am, Gurcharan Singh <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Ashwini ji >> I have discussed this in detail in my earlier post. Yours is clearly A. >> arvensis subsp. caerulea. >> >> >> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/indiantreepix/Ananagalis$20arvensis$20Gurcharan/indiantreepix/4EXykhCkjE8/SrpmLHwTUaoJ >> >> Dr. Gurcharan Singh >> Retired Associate Professor >> SGTB Khalsa College, University of Delhi, Delhi-110007 >> Res: 932 Anand Kunj, Vikas Puri, New Delhi-110018. >> Phone: 011-25518297 Mob: 9810359089 >> http://www.gurcharanfamily.com/ >> http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45/ >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 11:48 PM, surajit koley < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> This is a tough question, to differentiate the two taxa (or is it one?), >>> in spite of eFI having a clear demarcation. >>> >>> Flower character, length of pedicels etc are often overlapping. While >>> sites like >>> http://keyserver.lucidcentral.org/weeds/data/03030800-0b07-490a-8d04-0605030c0f01/media/Html/Anagallis_arvensis.htm >>> or http://flowers2.la.coocan.jp/Myrsinaceae/Anagallis%20arvensis.htm or >>> http://hirc.botanic.hr/fcd/DetaljiFrame.aspx?IdVrste=941 think all is >>> same some other sites like the following links think otherwise - >>> >>> 1. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20foemina >>> 2. http://www.floravascular.com/index.php?spp=Anagallis%20arvensis >>> >>> I think number of seeds may help - 10 to 23 in *foemina* and 20 to 35 >>> in *arvensis* (*caerulea* L.). >>> >>> Here is KEW herb of *foemina* - >>> http://apps.kew.org/herbcat/getImage.do?imageBarcode=K000750810. >>> >>> Since pedicels in the attached pics are longer than the subtending >>> leaves, and I prefer to follow FoC it is likely to be *A. arvensis* L. >>> >>> Thank you >>> Regards >>> surajit >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 4:47 PM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I think you should be right. >>>> >>>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >>>> From: Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> Date: 24 April 2015 at 17:51 >>>> Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:221413] Re: Blue Pimpernel ABAPR01/17 >>>> To: "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]> >>>> Cc: efloraofindia <[email protected]> >>>> >>>> >>>> Thank you very much Dr Garg. I am attaching here more photos to go with >>>> the key. Please advise if my understanding is correct; >>>> >>>> >>>> The first sample, petals are longer than sepals and petal edges are >>>> minutely hairy like a torn paper. >>>> <_MG_0262_13April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> The second sample from a different location shows pedicel longer than >>>> leaves. >>>> >>>> <_MG_0272_18April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> Petals are overlapping. >>>> <_MG_0272c_18April15.jpg> >>>> >>>> >>>> Can we conclude from this that the flower is *A. arvensis var. >>>> caerulea*? >>>> >>>> Thanks and regards, >>>> Ashwini >>>> >>>> >>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 5:24 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Keys are available at Anagallis >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>> >>>> On 24 April 2015 at 17:15, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thank you Dr Garg. I am not sure if it is *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>> foemina *or *Lysimachia formina. *The following is from my original >>>>> message on this thread; >>>>> >>>>> "FOI website lists it (or a similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. >>>>> foemina*. Alok Mahendroo ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis >>>>> arvensis var. coerulea*. Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue >>>>> variation of *A. arvensis* with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) >>>>> as they are categorised as different species after DNA studies. >>>>> >>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise.” >>>>> >>>>> Warm regards, >>>>> Ashwini >>>>> >>>>> On 24-Apr-2015, at 2:14 pm, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Pl. see Anagallis >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/po/primulaceae/anagallis> >>>>> >>>>> On 18 April 2015 at 21:25, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I found a few more plants at Gaggal Airport and am sharing them here >>>>>> to confirm the ID if possible. >>>>>> >>>>>> Gaggal Airport >>>>>> 1300m approx >>>>>> 18 April 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0265_18April15.jpg><_MG_0269_18April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 15-Apr-2015, at 9:05 am, Ashwini Bhatia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I saw these tiny blue flowers in the lower town where I had gone to >>>>>> partake in a local feast. I tried to photograph it on my phone but was >>>>>> unable to do so properly on account of the flower being too small for a >>>>>> clear picture. I collected a sample and hoped that it didn't wilt in the >>>>>> time it took me to reach home. It survived the journey and I made some >>>>>> photographs propping it up with a discarded cardboard box (hence the >>>>>> brown >>>>>> in the pictures). >>>>>> >>>>>> I was tickled on finding that it was called the Blue Pimpernel and >>>>>> was useful as a weather indicator due to its propensity to close before >>>>>> bad >>>>>> weather. I have not yet asked the local shepherds if they use this >>>>>> 'shepherd's weather-glass', but will do so soon. FOI website lists it >>>>>> (or a >>>>>> similar one) as *Anagallis arvensis ssp. foemina*. Alok Mahendroo >>>>>> ji's excellent nature blog says *Anagallis arvensis var. coerulea*. >>>>>> Wikipedia cautions not to confuse the blue variation of *A. arvensis* >>>>>> with *A. foemina* (or *Lysimachia formina*) as they are categorised >>>>>> as different species after DNA studies. >>>>>> >>>>>> I do not have the key to differentiate the two. Please advise. >>>>>> >>>>>> Blue Pimpernel >>>>>> Dharamshala, HP >>>>>> 1500m approx. >>>>>> 13 April 2015 >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> Ashwini >>>>>> >>>>>> <_MG_0235_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0234_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> <_MG_0223_13April15.jpg> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> With regards, >>>>> J.M.Garg >>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants >>>>> etc. >>>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>>> Efloraofindia >>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a >>>>> species database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner >>>>> of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia> >>>>> . >>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>>> India'. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> With regards, >>>> J.M.Garg >>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource >>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >>>> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >>>> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >>>> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian >>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in >>>> the world- more than 2400 members & 2,00,000 messages on 9.9.14) or >>>> Efloraofindia >>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >>>> database of more than 10,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of >>>> Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >>>> India'. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "efloraofindia" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Usha di =========== -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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