Excellent information Yazdi ji. Thanks a lot for sharing. Satish pardeshi ji never answered my queries about what was planted after Gliricidias were planted on the barren lands, but from his response to your mails I can see that nothing besides Gliricidias were planted and than a sceintific study was carried out to see what is not growing? !!! No offense meant Satish ji but when you have tried to falsify my observations of several plants growing under and around Gliricidias than courtsey demands that you complete the argument to establish knowledge one way or the other. Now you have done that and thank you for your stand. So going back to where the discussion started, wherein I stated that on several occasions Dr. Almeida has expressed his opinion that as far as Gliricidias are concerned in a rich forest and soil, nature and the forest will take care of itself holds true finally. regards, Rashida.
> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2010 12:34:19 +0530 > Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32395] Re: Gliricidia sepium > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > CC: [email protected] > > Dear Satish Pardeshi ji, > I agree with you absolutely. I would have planted a mixture of Jack > fruit trees, simply because, it grows easily, it is deep rooted and it > is an evergreen tree. The more the soil is protected from direct > sunlight, the more will the population of beneficial microorganism > develop. It is these that bring back fertility back into the soil. I > would also plant other deep rooted trees like Rose wood which is also > a forest legume and helps in fixing nitrogen . It should never be a > mono crop, once there is a good blend of forest and fruit trees, > nature will take over and bring fertility to the soil. We should then > take care that man does not interfere with nature. > One could take the assistance of the The National Biofertilizer > Development centre, Gaziabad and try if innoculation of the soil > during monsoon with Biofertilizers like Azosperillum, > Phosphobacterium, Rizobium (specifically suited for Gliricidia) since > the area is planted with Gliricidia; Acetobactor, Pseudomonas > florescense etc; would help. I am sure it will restore some balance in > soil. But care must be taken that the soil is not exposed to sunlight > otherwise, the biofertilizers population will come down. > Regards > Yazdy. > > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 11:29 AM, satish pardeshi > <[email protected]> wrote: > > Yes Yasdy ji > > actually the deccan part of maharshtra receives very less rainfall, so under > > the canopy also there is not enough moisture for the formation of humus.. i > > have observed thick layer of gliricidia leaves beneath > > the plantation canopy, they were not degraded but very dry due to lack of > > misture. your first point very much that "that > > the soil has enough count per gram of beneficial microorganism". > > What i feel that forest department only plant fast growing trees such as > > gliricidia, leuceana and Australian acacia, instead along with that they > > should also plant native fruit bearing trees so that they could also gown > > along with the favorable climatic change developed by these fast growing > > trees plus it will also support birds and other insects and animals. > > Regards > > Satish Pardeshi > > > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 11:31 AM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Hello Shri Satish Pardeshi ji, > >> I am relieved that you are not upset. Another observation of mine > >> while going through your pictures of gliricidia plantation was that > >> the forest department should plant other trees too. My observation is > >> that the land is exposed to too much sunlight as such, I doubt that > >> the soil has enough count per gram of beneficial microorganism. The > >> ground has to be covered with plenty of trees so that slowly the > >> beneficial microorganisms multiply and the soil fertility returns. > >> Once that is done, you will find that other plants can thrive under > >> Gliricidia too. > >> Man has destroyed the land by decimating trees in vast areas. The > >> matter is mitigated by farmers exploiting the land by indiscriminate > >> grazing exposing the soil to excessive sunlight. What is left is dry > >> land on which nothing grows. > >> If people are advised to let the leaves remain on the ground, to > >> prevent forest fire, nature will take over and reward us with a rich > >> soil. > >> Regards > >> Yazdy. > >> > >> On Thu, Apr 15, 2010 at 10:19 AM, satish pardeshi > >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Hello Yazdy ji > >> > its true that some words of yours did effect me, as i have observed the > >> > plantation across the state an it was my observed points that i > >> > discussed. > >> > so was a bit disturbed reading from you. but such "discussion and > >> > arguments" > >> > frequently occurs during an scientific talk, hence i dnt take it as an > >> > personal issue or otherwise. i have no issue, please excuse me if my > >> > response was not up to mark....right now my only aim is to develop an > >> > eflora > >> > of india. just looking forward for more information from your farm.. > >> > Regards > >> > Satish Pardeshi > >> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 7:57 PM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> > >> > wrote: > >> >> > >> >> Dear Mr. Satish Pardeshi Ji, > >> >> Thank you so much for the pain taken to explain and for the attached > >> >> pictures. > >> >> The pictures tell me that the land is totally devoid of any humus. > >> >> Even the Gliricidia are scraggy and week. My observation in the past > >> >> is that such land will take years to become fertile. In my opinion, > >> >> the forest department has done the right thing by planting these > >> >> trees.They could also try erithrina. We had a similar plot where there > >> >> was hardly any soil. It was mostly gravel and nothing would grow > >> >> there. My late father planted the area with plenty of gliricidia and > >> >> erithrina. It took years for layers of soil to develop and today it is > >> >> fertile. Anything you plant there thrives. > >> >> I have gone through the mail of Mr. Gurucharan Singh ji and the > >> >> phenomenon of allelopathy. I have read about it too. I have moreover > >> >> observed it in rubber plantations. Normally nothing grows under rubber > >> >> trees, I did not then know about allelopathy. Though these days people > >> >> cultivate some creepers under it and the land looks good and green. > >> >> In this case however, and your pictures shows that the land is hardly > >> >> having any soil or rather humus. It is barren. It was probably > >> >> neglected for a very long time. I think you will see the difference > >> >> after say another 5 years if the leaf litter is allowed to remain > >> >> there. If by chance I have offended you, please excuse, that was not > >> >> my intention. > >> >> Regards > >> >> Yazdy. > >> >> > >> >> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 5:27 PM, satish pardeshi > >> >> <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> > Mr. Yazdy Palia > >> >> > let me clarify that it was not an observation of a casual observer > >> >> > but > >> >> > a scientific survey of vegetation types across state of Maharashtra. > >> >> > what > >> >> > ever i have mentioned is the observation of scientific study > >> >> > in the Gliricidia plantation (plantation done by Forest department) > >> >> > in > >> >> > the > >> >> > district of Ahmednagar, Aurangabad, Akola, Washim and other > >> >> > districts. > >> >> > note > >> >> > that i was referring to Gliricidia plantation and not a few > >> >> > distantly > >> >> > placed Gliricidia plants planted as "coffee-shade". i have observed > >> >> > very > >> >> > few > >> >> > plants growing beneath the plantataion right from Monsoon to summer > >> >> > season. > >> >> > for the reference i am providing few images taken during the survey. > >> >> > Regards > >> >> > Satish Pardeshi > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Yazdy Palia <[email protected]> > >> >> > wrote: > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Hello Mr. Satish Pardeshi > >> >> >> If what you say is true, Nothing would ever grow in my farm. I have > >> >> >> thousands of these trees in my 40 acre farm. I grow coffee and > >> >> >> pepper > >> >> >> mainly. A lot of my pepper plants are growing on these gliricidia > >> >> >> trees. I do not know how long a time was spent by you in these > >> >> >> gliricidia plantations that you speak about. > >> >> >> There has to be some reason why you do not see vegetation under its > >> >> >> canopy. I wonder about the nature of the soil for starters. If it is > >> >> >> infertile land, you may not see much vegetation in any case. What is > >> >> >> the amount of rainfall that these areas receive? I have seen during > >> >> >> my > >> >> >> stay at kaneh and Kamshet that the farmers graze sheep in these > >> >> >> forests. Sheep as you know is enemy number one of any forest. If > >> >> >> sheep > >> >> >> grazing is practiced in these plantations, nothing will grow. A > >> >> >> casual visitor may assume that nothing grows under the canopy. > >> >> >> As far as the fallen leaves are concerned, they only encourage > >> >> >> growth > >> >> >> of all plants. If you ever go there and try and move the leaves > >> >> >> after > >> >> >> a few rains you will find plenty of fresh feeder roots of all plants > >> >> >> weeds or otherwise encouraged by the humus created by these falling > >> >> >> leaves. The fallen leaves encourages growth of the microorganism > >> >> >> that > >> >> >> is part of soil fertility. > >> >> >> There is another malaise of the areas that you mention. The > >> >> >> villagers > >> >> >> not only use these trees for firewood but they also take huge > >> >> >> amounts > >> >> >> of firewood for the local hotels (small ones) thereby making the > >> >> >> area > >> >> >> barren after a few years. Evidence of this could be seen daily in > >> >> >> the > >> >> >> morning when any train stops at small stations like palasdhari, > >> >> >> monkey > >> >> >> hill on the Lonavala track. They all hang the firewood on the window > >> >> >> grill of the train and unload it at Lonavala. > >> >> >> Gliricidia planted in such barren areas will nourish the soil and > >> >> >> make > >> >> >> it fertile within a few years. > >> >> >> Regards > >> >> >> Yazdy. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Pardeshi S. > >> >> >> <[email protected]> > >> >> >> wrote: > >> >> >> > Hello all > >> >> >> > Vast areas and barren hillls are planted with Gliricidia in > >> >> >> > Ahmednagar, Aurangabad, Osmanabad, Pune, Washim and Akola. the > >> >> >> > tree > >> >> >> > adapt it self to the environment and grows quickly. even when the > >> >> >> > trunk is cut down the coppice grows very fast and forms the green > >> >> >> > cover. the locals used it for fuel wood. i have observed the > >> >> >> > plants > >> >> >> > growing under the canopy of gliricidia plantation, and would like > >> >> >> > to > >> >> >> > mention that very few plants could survive under it. only a few > >> >> >> > grasses could be found growing under it. the thick layer of dried > >> >> >> > fallen leaves also hinder the growth of other herbs. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> > Satish Pardeshi > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > On Apr 14, 10:27 am, mani nair <[email protected]> wrote: > >> >> >> >> Thanks Rashidaji for the information. > >> >> >> >> Regards, > >> >> >> >> Mani. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> On Wed, Apr 14, 2010 at 9:44 AM, rashida atthar > >> >> >> >> <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Mani ji according to the book 'Trees of Mumbai', the > >> >> >> >> > scientific > >> >> >> >> > name > >> >> >> >> > Gliricidia is derived from the Spanish name 'Mata Raton' > >> >> >> >> > meaning > >> >> >> >> > mouse > >> >> >> >> > killer. 'Gliris' means mouse and 'Caedo' means killer. Sepium > >> >> >> >> > means > >> >> >> >> > hedge, > >> >> >> >> > the tree is sometimes planted as a hedge. Further the book > >> >> >> >> > mentions > >> >> >> >> > that in > >> >> >> >> > cocoa plantations it is grown as a shade tree, when grown as a > >> >> >> >> > hedge > >> >> >> >> > along > >> >> >> >> > crop fields, it acts as a wind breaker. The bark of the tree is > >> >> >> >> > powdered and > >> >> >> >> > mixed with rice/ maize flour baits set up to kill rats. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > regards, > >> >> >> >> > Rashida. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > >> >> >> >> > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 00:13:24 +0530 > >> >> >> >> > Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:32227] Gliricidia sepium > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > From: [email protected] > >> >> >> >> > To: [email protected] > >> >> >> >> > CC: [email protected]; [email protected]; > >> >> >> >> > [email protected]; > >> >> >> >> > [email protected]; [email protected]; > >> >> >> >> > [email protected] > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I believe that the bark of the trees is used as a rat poison. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Please clarify. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Regards, > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Mani. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > On Mon, Apr 12, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Padmini Raghavan > >> >> >> >> > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Dear Yazdyji, > >> >> >> >> > I have been trying without success to get a sapling of > >> >> >> >> > Gliricidia > >> >> >> >> > sepium > >> >> >> >> > as we have a rat menace at our apartment compound. A family of > >> >> >> >> > bandicoots > >> >> >> >> > has made itself so well entrenched that their burrows have > >> >> >> >> > killed > >> >> >> >> > a > >> >> >> >> > row of > >> >> >> >> > various coloured Ceasalpinia pulcherrima > >> >> >> >> > adjacent to our compound wall. The one cutting I obtained did > >> >> >> >> > not > >> >> >> >> > root, > >> >> >> >> > (inspite of it being called Quickstick)! > >> >> >> >> > My neihbours have tried Rat poison but it has not worked. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > In 1960, my uncle had planted a whole lot of these saplings to > >> >> >> >> > give > >> >> >> >> > shelter > >> >> >> >> > to teak seedlings he had planted on his land, which was on a > >> >> >> >> > small > >> >> >> >> > hill > >> >> >> >> > behind the farmhouse at a village (Ghunpur) near Nizamabad. He > >> >> >> >> > had > >> >> >> >> > hoped > >> >> >> >> > that a teak forest would make the summers more bearable. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I too would love to obtain some seeds from you. > >> >> >> >> > Rgds, > >> >> >> >> > Padmini Raghavan. > >> >> >> >> > On Sat, Apr 10, 2010 at 9:09 PM, Yazdy Palia > >> >> >> >> > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > Dear Tanay, > >> >> >> >> > Just tell me how much you require, I will send you mature pods > >> >> >> >> > or > >> >> >> >> > seeds that have been dispersed when the pods burst. > >> >> >> >> > I have a few thousand of these trees. They form excellent green > >> >> >> >> > manure, they nourish the soil by fixing nitrogen and they are > >> >> >> >> > very > >> >> >> >> > good standards for cultivating black pepper. Ultimately if and > >> >> >> >> > when > >> >> >> >> > you think of cutting them, they give very good timber for small > >> >> >> >> > furniture as good as teak. > >> >> >> >> > The flowers provide plenty of nectar for my honey bees too. > >> >> >> >> > Regards > >> >> >> >> > Yazdy. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > >> >> >> >> > Google > >> >> >> >> > Groups > >> >> >> >> > "efloraofindia" group. > >> >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >> >> > [email protected]. > >> >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > [email protected]<indiantreepix%2bunsubscr...@goog > >> >> >> >> > legroups.com> > >> >> >> >> > . > >> >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> >> >http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > >> >> >> >> > The battle for the FIH Hockey World Cup Drag n' > >> >> >> >> > drop<http://specials.msn.co.in/sp10/hockey/index.aspx> > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > -- > >> >> >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> >> >> > Groups "efloraofindia" group. > >> >> >> > To post to this group, send email to > >> >> >> > [email protected]. > >> >> >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> >> >> > [email protected]. > >> >> >> > For more options, visit this group at > >> >> >> > http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > -- > >> >> > Satish Pardeshi > >> >> > Plant Taxonomist > >> >> > Mumbai, Pune > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > -- > >> > Satish Pardeshi > >> > Plant Taxonomist > >> > Mumbai, Pune > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > > Satish Pardeshi > > Plant Taxonomist > > Mumbai, Pune > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "efloraofindia" group. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected]. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix?hl=en. > _________________________________________________________________ Bollywood This Decade http://entertainment.in.msn.com/bollywoodthisdecade/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. 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