---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 01:21
Subject: Re: Acknowledgement for accepting the status of J.NANA VAR.
BENGALENSE
To: ashish nerlekar <ashishadmireroffi...@gmail.com>, J.M. Garg <
jmga...@gmail.com>
I am the author of fam. Euphorb. sens. lat. in Fl. West Bengal. The
complimentary copy is not yet in hand. Here is the extract:
*Jatropha nana* Dalzell & A.Gibson, Bombay Fl. [Dalzell & Gibson] 229.
1861; Nerlekar, Phytotaxa 213(2): 157. 2015. *Jatropha nana* Dalzell &
A.Gibson var. *bengalensis* C.H.Rahaman & S.Mondal, Indian J. Forest.
35(4): 477. 2012 [Dec 2012], as '*bengalense*'.
On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 1:07 AM ashish nerlekar <
ashishadmireroffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thats great news!
>
> Thanks,
> Ashish
>
> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 1:03 AM Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Flora of West Bengal, Vol. 4 has been published and released by BSI on
>> 13th Feb. 2020. Here, the said variety has been cited as a synonym of the
>> typical variety.
>> Best regards,
>> T. C.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:58 AM Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks a lot.
>>> Regtards,
>>> T. C.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2020 at 12:25 AM ashish nerlekar <
>>> ashishadmireroffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Dr. Chakrabarty,
>>>>
>>>> I appreciate your response, and am glad that you find the evidence
>>>> compelling. I stress here again, I am absolutely not 'attached' to the type
>>>> variety, and will be the first one to say that I was wrong if somebody
>>>> presents sufficient evidence. I think that is how science proceeds, and its
>>>> heartening that we are discussing these things in the right spirit.
>>>>
>>>> I have attached the paper and the erratum (pointing out some
>>>> typographic errors, and not about the main points).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Ashish
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 11:46 PM Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear Ashish ji,
>>>>> Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. I am convinced with
>>>>> your arguments.
>>>>> Please send me a copy of the full paper for my personal use.
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> T. C.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 10:56 PM ashish nerlekar <
>>>>> ashishadmireroffi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Dr. Chakrabarty,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for forwarding the mail. I am in fact very happy to see that
>>>>>> we are pursuing a healthy discussion over here. I think its best to not
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> value laden when it comes to Science and the plants we work. I will set
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the distinction once again and provide evidence against the distinction
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the variety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If *J. nana var. bengalensis* is to be maintained as a separate
>>>>>> variety, we should expect that this variety has (according to the
>>>>>> protologue):
>>>>>> 1) to have 'minute stipules' (as opposed to long, filiform in the
>>>>>> type variety)
>>>>>> 2) to have tuberous roots (as opposed to finger-like roots in the
>>>>>> type variety)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I have been finding is that both these characters are abundantly
>>>>>> common in the type species too. I have very clearly stated this in the
>>>>>> paper *("Jatropha nana var. benghalensis was recently described as a
>>>>>> distinct variety on the basis of stipule morphology and size of the root
>>>>>> (Rahaman & Mondal 2012). Even though the protologue of the type variety
>>>>>> mentions ‘stipules minute’, field examination of several specimens from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> type locality (Pune) reveals that the stipules in J. nana are variable.
>>>>>> Stipules were more prominent in early pheno-phases with 1 to 3 processes
>>>>>> each (of 1.0–10 mm length). When the specimens were fully mature,
>>>>>> stipules
>>>>>> were minute or even absent. Similarly, with respect to root morphology,
>>>>>> several specimens from the type locality were found to have tuberous main
>>>>>> root (the largest was about 25 × 8 cm) (see figure 1). Both of these
>>>>>> findings contradict the taxonomic status of J. nana var. benghalensis as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> distinct variety. Hence, it is proposed that Jatropha nana var.
>>>>>> benghalensis should be merged with the type variety, as the two
>>>>>> characters
>>>>>> considered as diagnostic for this variety by the authors are actually
>>>>>> variable and also observed in specimens from the type locality")*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In support of my arguments, and in addition to the data and photos
>>>>>> provided in the 2015 paper, I am attaching the photos of the tuberous
>>>>>> root
>>>>>> (certainly this is not finger-like, more like arm-like!) and the variable
>>>>>> stipules.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About the capsule shape,
>>>>>> 1) it was not mentioned in the protologue as a distinguishing
>>>>>> character so I did not deal with it in the 2015 paper
>>>>>> 2) Capsule shape is again, pretty variable and ranges from globose to
>>>>>> ovate in the type variety too; see some more images that I had
>>>>>> contributed
>>>>>> at Flowersofindia (
>>>>>> https://www.flowersofindia.net/catalog/slides/Dwarf%20Jatropha.html).
>>>>>> I will probably get even more images showing capsule and even seed size
>>>>>> variation in the type variety.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> About geographical distribution,
>>>>>> There are several examples of plants and animals that show disjuct
>>>>>> distributions in India (for two examples, see:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.researchgate.net/profile/R_Geeta/publication/313762952_A_phylogenetic_approach_toward_the_understanding_of_disjunct_distributions_of_plant_taxa_in_Western_Ghats_and_northeastern_India/links/58a5278092851cf0e39308d6/A-phylogenetic-approach-toward-the-understanding-of-disjunct-distributions-of-plant-taxa-in-Western-Ghats-and-northeastern-India.pdf
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://eprints.iisc.ac.in/51883/1/Cur_Sci_108-10_1847_2015.pdf ).
>>>>>> Having a disjunct distribution does not, in any biogeogrpahical sense
>>>>>> confirm that a lineage has to be distinct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you find this set of evidence compelling at this point.
>>>>>> Molecular phylogeny would be the best tool to resolve this group further
>>>>>> (and I will be super happy to see evidence for and against my
>>>>>> arguments-as
>>>>>> I said, we should not be value laden and be objective).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> Ashish
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 4:33 PM Tapas Chakrabarty <tchak...@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear Garg ji,
>>>>>>> Please see the attached file in this regards.
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, Dr. Swarnendu Mondal as well as his Ph. D. guide,
>>>>>>> Prof. Chaudhury Habibur Rahman, Visva Bharati, Santiniketan, stopped
>>>>>>> maintaining contact with me as soon as I retired from service five years
>>>>>>> ago.
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>> T.C.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 17, 2020 at 8:54 AM J.M. Garg <jmga...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, Swarnendu ji,
>>>>>>>> Pl. see Tapas ji's post at Jatropha nana var. bengalensis
>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/e/euphorbiaceae/jatropha/jatropha-nana-var-bengalensis>
>>>>>>>> I am marking a copy to Tapas ji, who is the expert in this matter.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, 16 Mar 2020 at 20:13, SWARNENDU MONDAL <mucw...@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Sir,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> with due respect, I would like to inform you my pleased for your
>>>>>>>>> recent comment on your eflora page on Jatropha nana var. bengalense.
>>>>>>>>> I am
>>>>>>>>> personally happy to know that you are taking this as a new variety
>>>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>>>> was earlier supported by Dr. N.P.Balakrishnan also(conversation over
>>>>>>>>> mail
>>>>>>>>> with me), after the publication of the Lectotype of the variety by
>>>>>>>>> A.Nerlekar.
>>>>>>>>> ……………………..
>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot, eager to hear from you.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> SWARNENDU MONDAL
>>>>>>>>> Asst. Professor
>>>>>>>>> Dept. of Botany
>>>>>>>>> Tribal Medicine and Pharmacognosy Lab.
>>>>>>>>> M.U.C Women's College
>>>>>>>>> Burdwan
>>>>>>>>> ORCID ID: 0000-0002-6218-3290
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> With regards,
>>>>>>>> J.M.Garg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
>>>>>>>> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia
>>>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>
>>>>>>>> .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian
>>>>>>>> Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group
>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest
>>>>>>>> in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18)
>>>>>>>> or Efloraofindia
>>>>>>>> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a
>>>>>>>> species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which
>>>>>>>> more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The whole world uses my Image Resource
>>>>>>>> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than
>>>>>>>> a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies,
>>>>>>>> Plants
>>>>>>>> etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for
>>>>>>>> free
>>>>>>>> as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds
>>>>>>>> of India'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> *Ashish N. Nerlekar*
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graduate student, Veldman lab
>>>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/josephveldman/home?authuser=0>
>>>>>> Department of Ecosystem Science & Management,
>>>>>> Texas A & M University, TX 77843
>>>>>> ashishnerlekar.weebly.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Ashish N. Nerlekar*
>>>>
>>>> Graduate student, Veldman lab
>>>> <https://sites.google.com/site/josephveldman/home?authuser=0>
>>>> Department of Ecosystem Science & Management,
>>>> Texas A & M University, TX 77843
>>>> ashishnerlekar.weebly.com
>>>>
>>>
>
> --
> *Ashish N. Nerlekar*
>
> Graduate student, Veldman lab
> <https://sites.google.com/site/josephveldman/home?authuser=0>
> Department of Ecosystem Science & Management,
> Texas A & M University, TX 77843
> ashishnerlekar.weebly.com
>
--
With regards,
J.M.Garg
'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1>
Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia
<https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>.
For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora,
please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group
<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the
world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia
website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species
database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than
2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).
The whole world uses my Image Resource
<http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a
thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc.
(arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as
per Creative Commons license attached with each image.
Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of
India'.
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