Forwarding for ID Distributed as Clematis gouriana ? <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/m---z/r/ranunculaceae/clematis/clematis-gouriana-1> Group discussion at Fwd: SK280DEC28-2016:ID- 2 (google.com) <https://groups.google.com/g/indiantreepix/c/3Cs5_7Kd-g0>
On Thursday, February 2, 2017 at 6:46:01 PM UTC+5:30 JM Garg wrote: > Thanks, Chadwell ji and Saroj ji > > On 1 Feb 2017 12:47 a.m., "C CHADWELL" <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Whilst the closer images, with more of them are welcome - taken in >> January which >> is especially pleasing. They may not be sufficient to enable me to >> 'determine' the specimen. >> >> Having images of the leaves are useful, especially the underside as well. >> >> However, it can be difficult to decide without viewing the flowers. ANY >> image whether of >> flowers, fruits or foliage is informative but characteristics of the >> fruits are often less well studies. >> >> I SHALL take a look at my reference material to see if I can narrow >> things down but it MAY >> still require views of the flowers. So PLEASE obtain these, IF you are >> in a position to later this year. >> >> I realise this all seems rather involved, having taken two sets of photos >> now, however, for MOST >> genera, there are few (IF ANY) references for the fruits of a genus and >> OFTEN no way of reliably >> distinguishing between them on the basis of fruits alone. >> >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> www.shpa.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Saroj Kasaju <[email protected]> >> *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >> > *Cc:* C CHADWELL <[email protected]>; Dinesh Vijigiri < >> [email protected]>; efloraofindia <[email protected]> >> > >> *Sent:* Tuesday, 31 January 2017, 15:32 >> *Subject:* Re: SK280DEC28-2016:ID- 2 >> > >> 31 January 2017 >> >> Finally some close ups ! >> >> Validation please . >> >> Thank you. >> >> Saroj Kasaju >> >> On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:05 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Thanks a lot, Chadwell ji and Saroj ji >> >> On 24 Jan 2017 1:54 a.m., "C CHADWELL" <chrischadwell261@btinternet. com> >> wrote: >> >> I quite understand but can I REQUEST all photographers to search for >> accessible specimens >> which allow you them to take the necessary close-ups. And have a camera >> which can take macro-shots. >> MOST digital compacts have wonderful lenses these days with close-up >> facilities. They are light-weight, >> fitting easily into a short pocket (see my recent post about >> photographing plants any month of the year). >> >> It is great that members post images and I wish to ENCOURAGE not >> discourage but unless the images >> submitted show the necessary detail/characteristics, it can be very >> difficult to impossible to identify to species. >> >> The same situation exists for traditional pressed specimens for >> depositing in herbaria - unless one can see the >> often ESSENTIAL parts of the plant then a reliable identification often >> cannot be performed. >> >> Furthermore, such images tend not to help others RELIABLY identify the >> species when checked/compared with. >> >> ONE of the objectives/aspirations of eFI is not just to identify the >> plants images of which have been sent in but >> to have a selection of images for EACH species which show >> CHARACTERISTIC/DIAGNOSTIC features. >> >> In the past it was only economic to take one or two shots per plant, >> which tended to be 'general' views. >> >> Even such excellent guides as 'Flowers of the Himalaya' is now so dated >> photographically and OFTEN does >> NOT show DIAGNOSTIC characteristics. >> >> Nowadays one can take as many shots per plant as one likes - I OFTEN take >> 15-20, sometimes 30. >> >> Returning to "inaccessible" flowers. Yes, particularly in forests, >> flowers of trees, tall shrubs and tall climbers >> can be difficult to reach. >> >> Furthermore, there can be 'risks' in such places. On my first visit to >> Nepal, I encountered Giant Himalayan >> Stinging Nettles and leeches for the first time - which make plunging >> enthusiastically into thick vegetation less >> appealing! On my one and only visit to Meghalaya I came alarmingly close >> to a snake (could not tell if it was >> venomous or not and I was alone at the time).... >> >> So care needs to be taken but there is no escaping the need to get >> amongst vegetation and tolerate such >> unwelcome guests as leeches. >> >> *One of the advantages of concentrating upon plants at higher altitudes >> in Trans-Himalaya is that* >> *there are no such creatures to avoid!* >> >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> >> Chris Chadwell >> >> >> 81 Parlaunt Road >> SLOUGH >> SL3 8BE >> UK >> >> www.shpa.org.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Saroj Kasaju <[email protected]> >> *To:* J.M. Garg <[email protected]> >> *Cc:* efloraofindia <[email protected] m>; C CHADWELL >> <[email protected] >> om>; Dinesh Vijigiri <[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Monday, 23 January 2017, 10:24 >> *Subject:* Re: SK280DEC28-2016:ID- 2 >> >> Dear All, >> >> I agree not many images from different angles. The plant was >> situated on a slope without any access . All pictures were shot >> with 800 zoom lens . That is all I could submit >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Thank you. >> >> Saroj Kasaju >> >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2017 at 8:27 AM, J.M. Garg <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> 1. Dinesh Vijigiri <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Sir it may be Clematis heynei or C. gouriyana >> >> >> 2. Dear Saroj >> >> It is nice to have more than just one or two images of a Clematis (and >> all other genera) to inspect but most of the 8 images taken are similar, >> revealing much the same information. PLEASE on future occasions with >> Clematis at the fruiting stage, can you take close-ups of the foliage >> including the undersides of the leaves. >> >> It is always much harder to be sure about an identification at the >> fruiting stage as often reference images are few-and-far-between. >> >> The suggestion of C.heynei does not fit given its known distribution in >> S.India - as far as I know it has not been recorded from Nepal. >> It is known as the 'Deccan Clematis' on the 'Flowers of India' site. >> >> Let us consider Clematis gouriana. >> >> 'Flora of Kathmandu Valley' lists 9 species of Clematis including >> Clematis gouriana which they recorded from 1667-2121m below Phulchoki. Using >> their key C.gouriana is a possible species but I do not rely upon keys >> ONLY and one must ALWAYS wonder as to how reliable the information in Floras >> is. It seems that CURRENTLY the accepted name for what was known as >> C.gouriana Roxb. ex DC is now *Clematis javana.* >> >> They assign the local name of 'Junge lahara' to C.gouriana AND other >> Clematis incl. C.buchananiana and C.montana. >> >> They say C.gouriana is common in mixed forest flowering and fruiting in >> November. *Yet 'Enumeration of the Flowering Plants of Nepal' gives an >> * >> *altitudinal distribution of 500-1600m. So I cannot but wonder IF the >> Clematis below Phulchoki really is C.gouriana? It MIGHT be.* >> >> Flora of Bhutan lists C.gouriana DC. on shrubs at margins of subtropical >> and warm broad-leaves forests @ 150-2000m flowering October to November >> in both Bhutan and Sikkim. >> >> Stewart recorded C.gouriana from N.Pakistan in the foothill zone to 1200m. >> >> Flora Simlensis records C.gouriana from valleys below Shimla and hilly >> districts throughout India @ 300-900m plus Java and the Philippines. >> >> *At present I am uncertain how to distinguish, particularly at the >> fruiting stage and without close-up images, between C.javana and similar >> species.* >> >> I have a copy of 'Clematis' by S.L.Kapoor (Flowering Plants of India, >> Bulletin of the National Botanic Gardens, No. 124, 1966). The author gives >> a distribution from NW Himalaya to Assam and in S.India at 305-2440m. >> >> He observes that this species is highly variable with regard to the >> shape, texture, venation and indumentum of the leaflets. Apparently >> specimens from what was Burma approach the leaflets of C.javana.... >> >> C.triloba Heyne (now a synonym of C.heynei) is described by Kapoor. >> >> *Given my criticism of some works, I have found Kapoor's efforts of >> value - extensive and thorough. He examined a lot of herbarium specimens, >> appears to comment about each Clematis known from India at that time, in a >> way one can have confidence in. His written descriptions and the line >> drawings seem of a high standard * >> --- >> from Chadwell ji. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *---------- Forwarded message ----------From: Saroj Kasaju >> <[email protected]>Date: 29 December 2016 at 14:28Subject: >> SK280DEC28-2016:IDTo: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups. com>, >> "J.M. Garg" <[email protected]>* >> Dear members >> >> Location: Nagarkot, Nepal >> Altitude: 7000 ft. >> Date: 28 December 2016 >> >> Thank you. >> >> Saroj Kasaju >> >> >> >> >> *-- * >> With regards, >> J.M.Garg >> 'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna' >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jmgarg1> >> Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia >> <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/award-for-efloraofindia>. >> For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, >> please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group >> <https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/indiantreepix> (largest in the >> world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia >> website <https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/> (with a species >> database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images). >> The whole world uses my Image Resource >> <http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:J.M.Garg> of more than a >> thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. >> (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as >> per Creative Commons license attached with each image. >> Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of >> India'. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "efloraofindia" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/76488c8f-65d7-4330-9c89-c1e5afe5b2f3n%40googlegroups.com.
